--- "Robert J. Chassell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [I wrote:]
> Of course, here I am presupposing that there IS > something to be sensed, ... > > How can this be a presupposition? It as much truth > of human nature as > mothers loving their children, but being prepared, > in the appropriate > culture, to attempt infanticide under certain > conditions, as was done with Moses. I was trying to write from the 'neutral agnostic' position, while acknowledging that I in fact am a person who has had "numinous experiences." But I cannot prove that scientifically to someone who has not experienced such a moment. It is of course possible that our technology will someday advance to the point of being able to measure some of these 'events.' > Numinous experiences do occur. I don't know anyone > who denies that. > It is the same with apparitions and stigmata. They > occur, too. Yet some people will state that such experiences are "delusional," or the products of a weak mind; I was trying to explain how it could be possible for both someone who has, and someone who has not, lived through such moments to be accurate in their interpretation of such events. > The issue is not whether whether some people have > such experiences, > but how they are interpreted. Within a single > culture, there is no > question. Everyone interprets the experience the > same. But people in > different cultures interpret apparitions, stigmata, > and numinous experiences differently. Yes; but some people do not (cannot?) have these experiences at all, so they think of others - or themselves - as 'delusional' or 'defective.' > Consider numinous experiences. <snip> > On the other hand, if you have experience several > cultures, and take > the other cultures seriously (rather than as > `foreign' or `crazy' or > `misguided'), then your spiritual experience tells > you that humans > have a characteristic that enables them to come to > embrace certain > beliefs, but that the particular nature of the > beliefs is culturally determined. > > Note that the beliefs of major religions such as > Confucianism, > Hinduism, or Christianity, include preferences for > actions that are > generally considered altruistic and actions that > have good long term > consequences in spite of creating short term > difficulties. > > When you think in terms of nature rather than > nurture, then you note > that our paleolithic ancestors survived in bands. > And the members of > the bands had to cooperate, to help each other, and > to act for long > term as well as short term survival. Pretty > obviously, such bands > would survive better if they were made up of people > some of whom would > have numinous experiences that confirmed the local > belief system (if > the belief system was helpful). Agreed. > It also goes without saying that numinous > experiences can and do > confirm statements of liturgy that are unfalsifiable > in other ways. But for those who cannot believe in such experiences, there is no "scientific proof" to replace the faith of the believer/experiencer. > As the late anthropologist, Roy Rappaport, pointed > out, numinous > experiences transform "the dubious, the arbitrary, > and the > conventional into the correct, the necessary, and > the natural." This > is important because members of a paleolithic band > must cooperate, > which is to say, members must behave often enough in > what everyone > thinks of as a `correct, necessary, and natural' > manner, else the band will die. Yes, spirituality must have been a 'centripetal' force in such bands, although in huge masses as we have grown into now, it has become a force that too often flings apart... Debbi __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
