Here is the list of values I do not agree with:
First let me say that many of the values you list as Christian are not universally held Christian values. You'll find that some Christians might have these values, and some might not. I'll give more details as I address each of the values you mention.
Opposition to Abortion rights
This one is pretty mainstream within the Christian community, and is the position of the Catholic church as well as Fundamentalist churches. But I personally as a Christian do not oppose abortion rights, and I know many within both the Catholic church and even within a couple of Baptist churches where I have some friends who also don't oppose abortion rights. I'm definitely not going to defend this one, as I also disagree with opposition to abortion rights (or said another way, I support abortion rights). But as I've stated before, I believe that reducing the number of abortions is a good idea, and I think you accomplish that by working to reduce poverty and increase education.
Supremacy of Church over Family or the individual
I don't believe in the absolute supremacy of any organized religion over the family or the individual. But this issue is much more complicated than that, and I don't think it's within the scope of this email to attack that. I may get to it later in a separate post, especially if you put some more specifics on that.
Intolerance to vastly different religions
Like some of the others on your list, this is not a general Christian value. It is much more prevalent among Fundamentalists than among others. I personally have friends who are various varieties of "neo-pagans" and "neo-druids," as well as a Buddhist friend and a couple of Native American friends who follow their traditional spiritual beliefs. Most of the times we have talked about religion (or more specifically, about spirituality), we have focused on the things our beliefs have in common. Many Christians are quite tolerant of "vastly different religions."
On the other hand... I have a tee shirt that has a picture of Stonehenge and says, "Orthodox Druid" on it. I like the shirt because it's a joke -- there is no such thing as orthodoxy among druids. Orthodox druid is as much an oxymoron as military intelligence or Microsoft Works. While wearing this shirt, I've been approached by Fundamentalists who want to talk to me about their religious beliefs. None of them want to believe me when I tell them it's a joke, and they try to tell me that even joking about this can make me go to hell. I find this kind of ironic, because a neo-druid friend tells me that his belief tells him to never mock anyone else's god or gods, because all gods are one, and they just show different faces to different people depending on what those people need. As a Christian I can see a certain wisdom in this.
Belief that one's God should protect one in war, over one's enemy
I don't think this is a codified, specific belief of any Christian church. *Individual* Christians of course will pray that they will be safe in war, just as athiests will *hope* that they will be safe in war. I have no problem with either. But I don't see this as a specifically Christian value. If you are talking about Christians praying that the enemy will be slaughtered, then I also have a problem with that, and that problem starts with the biblical injuction to "love you enemies"...
Belief in the Original Sin
This is a thorny one. There have been disagreements even within the Catholic church about this one, and I don't feel qualified to tackle it here, other to say that I personally have a problem with the concept of original sin, but then again as I've stated before, my personal beliefs have moved somewhat away from the Catholic mainstream.
Belief in Creationism
This is a belief among Fundamentalists and other biblical literalists but many Christians are not literalists and believe that the creation stories in the Bible are to say *that* God created, not *how* he created.
Opposition of teaching evolution
Again, this is a Fundamentalist thing that typically doesn't occur among non-literalist believers.
Supremacy of KJV bible over other canon
Certainly not true in the Catholic church, or in some other Christian churches.
Opposition to Homosexuality
There are plenty of Christian denominations who are not opposed to homosexuality, and some denominations even allow openly homosexual ministers, Evangelical Lutherans (ELCA) for example. But again, typically you would find opposition to homosexuality among Fundamentalists.
Altruism
You don't think altruism is a good thing? Dictionary.com defines altruism as
1. Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness.
2. _Zoology_ Instinctive cooperative behavior that is detrimental to the individual but contributes to the survival of the species.
What do you think is wrong with altruism?
Penance
Do you mean the specific Catholic sacrament of penance, or the general idea of feeling sorry for things you did wrong and asking for forgiveness from those you have wronged?
Supremacy of Privacy between church leaders and liturgy (?).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this one.
Belief that Christian values are the only good values or that if one does not believe in Christian values, that one has no values
See my comments above about intolerance.
The tying of being Moral or being Ethical as being Christian.
See my comments above about intolerance.
The belief that Christian values are exclusively "family" values
Any further discussion on this one would depend on which specific values you mean, and also on which specific Christians you mean.
Belief that those that choose to not believe in Abraham's god are doomed to Hell
See my comments above about intolerance.
Reliance upon faith as a basis for the formulation a set of ethics, morals, and values
Heinlein was ridiculed by some for his concept of a formalized math of ethics in _Starship Troopers_. I don't have the answer on this, other than to say Dan M. asks some awfully good questions about what the basis of ethics, morals, and values should be, if they aren't based on faith and/or religious beliefs. I certainly don't have any good answers on this one, only questions (questions for *both* sides of the arguement, by the way).
The only true justice is Christian justice (eye for an eye).
As I stated in a previous email, Christian justice is not an eye for an eye.
The right to pray in school (see how popular that idea is if schools started
broadcasting Moslem Prayer calls over school intercoms...)
I believe strongly that as long as there are tests, there will be prayer in school :-) But I think it is wrong for a student to be required to participate in a prayer or be forced to sit and listen as others pray. Individual private prayer is no problem as I see it, and groups getting together to pray during time that is otherwise free time (before school, after school, during lunch, etc) is ok by me too, so long as it isn't in a place that forces others to hear.
Many of the values you list as Christian values are better defined as Fundamentalist Christian values, and I think you will find many non-Fundamentalist Christians agreeing with you.
Jesus primarily preached Justice, Humility, and Love. I am for this (of course). I think most every non-Christian is as well. The differences come into play when we discuss what is meant by each of these values, Justice, Humility, and Love. ( I am generalizing, for sure, but bear with me.)
Justice Christian - Commutative Justice (Eye for an Eye) Buddhist - Belief in Karma, Justice too much like revenge. Islam - Justice is the basis of God's acts.
Again, Christian justice is not an eye for an eye. Christianity (non-Fundamentalist Christianity) is about forgiveness and love. (For the Fundies, it's more about fear and blind obedience, and you won't find me supporting that kind of "justice.")
Love
Christian - Love God and Christ first, then your fellow man.
Buddhist - Love oneself first, then others
Islam - Love only one God, Allah, then all else, for the sake of God, and in
the name of God.
Who you love first has always seemed like an irrelevant question to me. When people ask that question, they are usually really asking "to whom are you most loyal." The real question is, "what is love?" I believe the answer goes something like, "Love is patient, love is kind..." For more details, see the first letter of Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13.
Humility Christian - Strong requirement for worship and entry into Heaven Islam - Strong requirement for worship and entry into Heaven Buddhist - That which is most pursued.
You said above that you are for humility, but not necessarily as defined by Christianity. But here you don't really offer a Christian definition of humility, only a statement of its importance within the religion.
You may reply back that those beliefs are generalized, and outdated, that modern Christians are more liberal, or that I may just have it wrong. But before you do, I would kindly ask that you ask yourself whether or not you really align as closely as you think you do to Christian values.
There is *no such thing* as Christian values. There are many different sets of values which different Christians hold. To talk about Christian values as if they were a universal, monolithic entity is simply to deny reality. There is no more one universal set of Christian values than there is one universal definition of what it means to be an American. To some, being American is all about baseball, hotdogs, and apple pie. To others being American is about being free. To others, being American is about being dominant, being the best country possible at all costs. To some Christians, Christianity is about fear of hell. To some, it's about forgiveness and love. To some, it's about obedience (these are probably some of the same people for whom being American is about being dominant).
You mention a list of Christian values, but you failed to mention God's importance in the priority or order of value.
And this is important because...? You seem very interested in issues of heirarchy, much more interested that many Christians. As I stated at the beginning of this email and many times throughout, the values you list as Christian are not univerally held values among Christians.
I'll ask the tough question now. If attaining Utopia required everyone on Earth to become a non-Christian, would you give up Christianity? I'm not saying this is true, but I am challenging your notion of love of civilization over love of Christ.
Would a Christian consider a Utopia to be a Utopia without God?
Alas, I have given more than enough today to insure I will get an online thrashing.
No thrashing intended, just callin' 'em as I see 'em.
I want you to see how _I_ see Christian values, in a more broad
context. Is it less about the Values themselves, as much as it is the
priority of those values (God over Man, Gospel over Man, Gospel over Family,
Family over Individual).
To you, is the individual the all-important thing? Do you believe that individual sacrifice for community or country is a bad thing?
If that is the case, then we are going to have to agree to disagree. I think that community is very important. I also believe in things like personal responsibility, not letting the community dictate every single action I take, but I do place value in altruism and sacrifice, provided that sacrifice is not forced upon the individual but is taken by that individual by an act of free will?
Or do you not believe in free will?
Reggie Bautista
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