I'm curious, what's the reason for making this desktop only? Christian
On Fri, May 16, 2025, 11:31 'Christine Hollingsworth' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > Hi Ashley, thank you for bringing this to our attention! This API should > only be available on *desktop only,* and we're in the process of updating > various resources / code ASAP to reflect that. > > On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 9:53 AM Ashley Newson <ashleynew...@google.com> > wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> I see that the Language Detection API blink feature has been flipped to >> enabled-by-default for all platforms. (Congratulations!) >> >> As a result, this web API is now exposed on Android WebView. I gave it a >> try on a demo page, but the feature isn't hooked up to an implementation >> for this platform. Additionally, I'm not sure it provides an accurate >> availability result. There's a risk this will cause bugs and compatibility >> problems for apps loading web content that tries to use it. Subsequent >> discussion elsewhere confirmed that it is known to not work on WebView. >> >> Based on this I2S and ChromeStatus entry, I only see immediate plans to >> ship on desktop platforms, suggesting the feature was in being >> trialed/tested on all platforms (including WebView) other than iOS. I >> believe the feature is now also enabled (working) on Android Chrome too, >> but that's technically not a desktop platform. >> >> So long as there's no support for Android WebView, we should avoid >> enabling the feature for this platform and it should not appear in >> //android_webview/test/data/web_tests/virtual/stable/webexposed/global-interface-listing-expected.txt >> >> Enabled by default in: >> https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6547240 >> Proposed M137 merge: >> https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6551336 >> >> Demo URI: >> https://chrome.dev/web-ai-demos/translation-language-detection-api-playground/ >> >> Context about WebView: >> - >> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/android_webview/README.md >> - go/webview <https://goto.google.com/webview> >> >> Ashley Newson >> On Monday, 5 May 2025 at 12:12:40 UTC+1 Yoav Weiss (@Shopify) wrote: >> >>> LGTM3 >>> >>> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 11:11 AM Daniel Bratell <brat...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> LGTM2 >>>> >>>> /Daniel >>>> On 2025-05-02 16:49, Chris Harrelson wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for these clarifications! >>>> >>>> LGTM1 >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:39 PM 'Domenic Denicola' via blink-dev < >>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 8:08 AM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025, 3:56 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbo...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, the intent is to ship section 4 from the linked specification. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regarding Mozilla, we have no signal from them. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you reached out to discuss? I'm concerned there might be >>>>>> multiple incompatible translation apis under development. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> First, let's clarify that this is a discussion about translator APIs, >>>>> whereas this Intent to Ship is for a language detector API. So although >>>>> multiple translator APIs might be worrying for a translator I2S, I am >>>>> hopeful it doesn't need to be treated as a blocker for language detector. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, we indeed have had ongoing discussions with Mozilla, both >>>>> one-off and in the WebML Community Group, about this subject. >>>>> >>>>> The status of their translator explainer is a bit unclear. As you can >>>>> see, it hasn't been presented to any community group or working group. >>>>> When >>>>> we'd previously asked their WebML CG representatives about it, they said >>>>> they were monitoring the space and weren't yet ready to present an >>>>> alternative. They haven't given any negative signals on our proposed >>>>> translator API (nor official positive ones). >>>>> >>>>> It's also worth noting that the mozilla/explainers proposal is >>>>> strictly less powerful than the WebML CG one that we're developing. That >>>>> is, theirs can be polyfilled on top of ours, but not vice-versa. So if the >>>>> mozilla/explainers proposal got traction in the future, we could add it as >>>>> well, either natively or via a JavaScript polyfill. >>>>> >>>>> It's also worth noting that some of the use cases that partners have >>>>> used the translator API for during the origin trial are not possible with >>>>> the mozilla/explainers proposal. Some examples: >>>>> >>>>> - Translating audio, in conjunction with web speech APIs for >>>>> speech recognition and generation; >>>>> - Translating user search terms, including translating them *away* from >>>>> the user's preferred language. (E.g., prompting a Spanish-speaking >>>>> user on >>>>> an English e-commerce site with: "You entered 'zapatos'. Did you mean >>>>> to >>>>> search for 'shoes'?") >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hope this helps! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Deepti >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 8:15 AM Chris Harrelson < >>>>>>> chri...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, I see that Mozilla has published an explainer >>>>>>>> <https://github.com/mozilla/explainers/blob/main/translation.md> >>>>>>>> for an (alternate?) translation API. I realize that their explainer >>>>>>>> may not >>>>>>>> cover language detection, but language detection is part of a larger >>>>>>>> spec >>>>>>>> linked here that includes translation. Have you talked to them about >>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, is this intent just proposing to ship section 4 from the >>>>>>>> linked specification? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:34 PM Deepti Bogadi <dbo...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Overall we have received positive feedback from the developers. A >>>>>>>>> more recent snapshot of the quantitative feedback was shared at >>>>>>>>> BlinkOn: >>>>>>>>> bit.ly/blinkon-2025-builtin-ai (slide 34). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We are working with our partners who are excited >>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/36> to >>>>>>>>> use this API. I am also sharing our latest OT feedback >>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/blob/main/telcons/2025-02-26-cg-minutes.md> >>>>>>>>> stats >>>>>>>>> across various APIs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Finally, from the latest OT sign up numbers, we were already order >>>>>>>>> of magnitude above a typical OT which suggests lots of interest in >>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> this API enables. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hope this helps. Let me know if you have further questions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Deepti >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 11:13 AM Alex Russell < >>>>>>>>> sligh...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey Deepti, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are you able to summarize developer feedback from the OT? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 25, 2025 at 1:58:12 PM UTC-7 Deepti Bogadi wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> dom...@chromium.org, fer...@chromium.org, kenji...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>>>>> ay...@chromium.org, mem...@chromium.org, chris...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>>>>> dbo...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://webmachinelearning.github.io/translation-api/#language-detector-api >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Note that although the translator API and language detector APIs >>>>>>>>>>> both live in a single specification, they can be implemented >>>>>>>>>>> independently, >>>>>>>>>>> and this Intent is only for the language detector API. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A JavaScript API for detecting the language of text, with >>>>>>>>>>> confidence levels. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blink component >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blink>AI>Language Detection >>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.chromium.org/issues?q=customfield1222907:%22Blink%3EAI%3ELanguage%20Detection%22> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TAG review >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/948 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> TAG review status >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Issues addressed >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The TAG had a number of questions and suggestions, particularly >>>>>>>>>>> around API shape, all of which were addressed and incorporated into >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> design. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin Trial Name >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Language Detector API >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chromium Trial Name >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin Trial documentation link >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/translation-api/blob/main/README.md >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WebFeature UseCounter name >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> kV8LanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This feature, like all built-in AI features, has inherent >>>>>>>>>>> interoperability risks due to the use of AI models whose behavior >>>>>>>>>>> is not >>>>>>>>>>> fully specified. See some general discussion in >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/reports/ai-web-impact/#interop. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> By providing a high-level API with clear output formats, as well >>>>>>>>>>> as a capabilities API for detecting what a given browser supports, >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> believe we can guide web developers toward using the API in an >>>>>>>>>>> interoperable way that does not depend on the specific models that >>>>>>>>>>> a given >>>>>>>>>>> browser or browser version uses. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: No signal ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/1015) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: No signal ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/339) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/147) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Other signals: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This API will likely frequently be used in concert with the >>>>>>>>>>> translator API ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5172811302961152). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The language detection is run on the main thread, the same as >>>>>>>>>>> the browser's built-in language detection. The inference is fast >>>>>>>>>>> enough >>>>>>>>>>> that it is not a concern. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Activation >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This feature would definitely benefit from having polyfills, >>>>>>>>>>> backed by any of: cloud services, lazily-loaded on-device models >>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>> WebGPU, or the web developer's own server. We anticipate seeing an >>>>>>>>>>> ecosystem of such polyfills grow as more developers experiment with >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> API. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, >>>>>>>>>>> such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based >>>>>>>>>>> applications? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Basic tooling suffices >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The WPTs test the API surface, but since no specific language is >>>>>>>>>>> guaranteed to be supported, we cannot test the actual language >>>>>>>>>>> detection. >>>>>>>>>>> Some tests will need to be marked as optional as they assume certain >>>>>>>>>>> language support. They also currently do not pass on wpt.fyi since >>>>>>>>>>> it runs >>>>>>>>>>> without a language detection model, so creation of LanguageDetector >>>>>>>>>>> fails. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Flag name on about://flags >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> language-detection-api >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Finch feature name >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LanguageDetectionAPI >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rollout plan >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Will ship enabled for all users >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> False >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Measurement >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> kV8AILanguageDetector_Detect_Method >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Shipping on desktop >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 137 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop first >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop last >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin trial extension 1 end milestone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 138 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 129 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin trial Android first >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin trial Android last >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on Android >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 129 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin trial WebView first >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 130 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Origin trial WebView last >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 135 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> None but the API shape is designed with extensibility in mind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/6494349985841152?gate=5122129510268928 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Intent to Prototype: >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Ie46tc6_8so/m/eY1huFmOAAAJ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra-WvH-sxxWndwAWPLF3eEYqeLhXrz-VmZKH4Wxzbpse-Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> Intent to Extend Experiment 1: >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAO4d-SsFc3ucbmasgZmWn4PE_TOMMnWZQCzrL%3DXbbo5tDxMSOg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJcT_ZgG8%2BepW52jqPEbny4cCCYbSC9q6r8sw6uKmrw_gphpwA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> 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