These numbers sound good to me. I have no concerns with continuing the
rollout, and you don't need any more approvals from us to continue.

Thanks for reporting back.

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 8:41 AM 'Daniel Vogelheim' via blink-dev <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello all, it's been a while.
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 7:23 PM Chris Harrelson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> LGTM1 to turn it on in M118 beta and report back to this group about use
>> counter results/bugs reported on beta before it reaches stable.
>>
>
> As requested, I have added use counters to measure ORB-blocked resources
> on elements (script and img/video/media) with event handlers. On current
> stable, I get this: (source
> <https://uma.googleplex.com/p/chrome/timeline_v2?sid=064bd3472f5dfd2a92f8d34049e5848e>
> )
>
> -  0.006% of page loads have a script or media element with an event
> handler (and thus potential compatibility impact from this change; although
> we don't know what the impact would be)
> - 0.0075 % of page loads have a script or media element without any event
> handlers (and thus guaranteed without compatibility impact from this change)
> - The majority of pages with any event handler seem to have both handlers
> - onload and onerror - set.
>
> I'll note that the sum of those (with any + without any) are much lower
> than the numbers I previously reported in this thread. I believe that's
> because of 1, here we only count specific HTML elements (but not e.g. the
> ping attribute on links), and 2, the carveout for fetch()-initiated
> requests. The previously reported metric counted ORB-related blocks across
> all page-initiated responses, regardless of whether it might be
> script-visible or not.
>
> Daniel
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 2:50 AM 'Daniel Vogelheim' via blink-dev <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 11:29 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 6:48 PM Daniel Vogelheim <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 9:10 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 7:27 PM Daniel Vogelheim <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 5:55 PM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 5:44 PM Daniel Vogelheim <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 5:24 PM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 5:53 PM 'Daniel Vogelheim' via blink-dev <
>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Contact [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Specificationhttps://github.com/whatwg/fetch/pull/1442
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Summary
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Opaque Response Blocking (ORB) is a replacement for Cross-Origin
>>>>>>>>>>> Read Blocking (CORB -
>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5629709824032768). CORB and
>>>>>>>>>>> ORB are both heuristics that attempt to prevent cross-origin 
>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure of
>>>>>>>>>>> “no-cors” subresources. This entry tracks "v0.2" of ORB - Chrome's 
>>>>>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>>>>>> step towards a full ORB implementation. ORB specifies error 
>>>>>>>>>>> handling for
>>>>>>>>>>> blocked resources differently from CORB: ORB raises network errors, 
>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>> CORB injects an empty response. ORB "v0.1" still used CORB-style 
>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>> injection. This change brings our implementation more in line with 
>>>>>>>>>>> the ORB
>>>>>>>>>>> proposal, by changing the error handling of all fetches (except when
>>>>>>>>>>> initiated by a script) to be compliant with ORB. We've made a 
>>>>>>>>>>> carve-out for
>>>>>>>>>>> script-initiated fetches (where we retain CORB behaviour for now) 
>>>>>>>>>>> to limit
>>>>>>>>>>> compatibility risk.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentInternals>Sandbox>SiteIsolation
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Internals%3ESandbox%3ESiteIsolation>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNone
>>>>>>>>>>> (A TAG review of a particular aspect happened in:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/618)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Risks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This release does not modify blocking behaviour, but only how a
>>>>>>>>>>> blocked resource is represented. Ideally, this change shouldn't 
>>>>>>>>>>> break any
>>>>>>>>>>> existing code since any resource that loads (or gets blocked) 
>>>>>>>>>>> before will
>>>>>>>>>>> continue to do so after. However, it is possible to distinguish 
>>>>>>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>>>>>> different types of error handling, and it may well happen that an
>>>>>>>>>>> application inadvertently relies on blocked resources "succeeding". 
>>>>>>>>>>> In our
>>>>>>>>>>> examinations so far, this chiefly concerns fetches using the 
>>>>>>>>>>> `fetch()` API,
>>>>>>>>>>> where blocking with a network error results in a failed promise 
>>>>>>>>>>> (instead of
>>>>>>>>>>> a success with an empty response). For this reason, we have carved 
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> script-initiated fetches from "v0.2" and intend to handle them at a 
>>>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OK, so how would this change be web exposed? Are there scenarios
>>>>>>>>>> where an "error" event would now fire instead of a "load" event?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, exactly. If a site is waiting for an onload event - despite
>>>>>>>>> not really caring about whether the load is actually meaningful, 
>>>>>>>>> since it
>>>>>>>>> currently already loads empty - then it would see a behavioural 
>>>>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do we have stats on how often that would happen? (e.g. how often an
>>>>>>>> onload event fires on an ORB empty resource?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No. I didn't realize I could measure onload events firing
>>>>>>> specifically for ORB-blocked resources. So I unfortunately don't have 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The number of page views with any CORB/ORB-blocked resource in it
>>>>>>> hovers around 0.35% of page loads. That should provide an upper bound, 
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> doesn't tell us how many of them care about the onload/onerror events.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One way to avoid a 2 months delay while we're waiting on data could
>>>>>> be to add the use counters + a base feature and go ahead with a removal,
>>>>>> but turning it off if we see that the actual breakage exceeds some
>>>>>> threshold.
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Turning this on via server-side experiments (and thus being able to
>>>>> turn it off quickly on problem reports) is easy to do. It might make sense
>>>>> to have it enabled on beta 50/50 for a while, to see whether anyone 
>>>>> notices.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find it surprisingly hard to implement the use counters: The code
>>>>> that knows the network status (and thus _why_ a response might be empty) 
>>>>> is
>>>>> separated by several layers from the code that knows the element and
>>>>> whether it has any event handlers. :-/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree that piping that information over from the browser to the
>>>> renderer would be an overkill (and may have security implications on
>>>> its own). In that case, a careful Finch may be sufficient.
>>>> One last thought - maybe it's possible to report the information to UKM
>>>> from both sides of the code, and join it at analysis time? (if that's not
>>>> too complex)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've now landed the usecounter CL. What I'd like to do is: Enable the
>>> feature on beta now and wait for numbers to arrive from the usecounters.
>>> This would give us two signals on compatibility.
>>>
>>> According to the current schedule, the counters will make it into 118.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Gecko*: No signal (
>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1532642) In
>>>>>>>>>>> implementation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal (
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/64)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Other signals*:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/618
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> WebView application risks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs,
>>>>>>>>>>> such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based
>>>>>>>>>>> applications?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> None
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms
>>>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>
>>>>>>>>>>> ?Yes (https://wpt.fyi/results/fetch/orb)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Flag name on chrome://flags
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Finch feature nameOpaqueResponseBlockingV02
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug
>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1463725
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones
>>>>>>>>>>> Shipping on desktop 117
>>>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 115
>>>>>>>>>>> Shipping on Android 117
>>>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on Android 115
>>>>>>>>>>> Shipping on WebView 117
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anticipated spec changesNone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5166834424217600
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions
>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/ScjhKz3Z6U4
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected].
>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CALG6KPPNdN%3DO0j0MhcfudkBtMoYnELhVRJ5nLftB8c1T1UdwbQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CALG6KPPNdN%3DO0j0MhcfudkBtMoYnELhVRJ5nLftB8c1T1UdwbQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>
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