LGTM1 to ship with a killswitch flag, just in case. Thanks for the thorough analysis!
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 3:41 PM Mathias Bynens <[email protected]> wrote: > I’ve continued analyzing UKM results and have now reached n=40 as Rick > suggested: > > | origin | link to analysis > | continues to work with the change? | > | :--------------------------------------- | :---------------------------- > | :--------------------------------- | > | https://account.amazon.jobs | https://crbug.com/1412729#c23 > | ✅ | > | https://code.earthengine.google.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c41 > | ✅ | > | https://ekartlogistics.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c52 > | ✅ | > | https://go.thepersonalfinancialguide.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c29 > | ✅ | > | https://heliyatra.irctc.co.in | https://crbug.com/1412729#c47 > | ✅ | > | https://identity.appen.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c11 > | ✅ | > | https://login.vitalsource.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c17 > | ✅ | > | https://login.yahoo.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c16 > | ✅ | > | https://m.betpix365.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c27 > | ✅ | > | https://m.esportesdasorte.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c21 > | ✅ | > | https://m.estrelabet.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c22 > | ✅ | > | https://m.vaidebet.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c32 > | ✅ | > | https://my1.konami.net | https://crbug.com/1412729#c33 > | ✅ | > | https://particuliers.engie.fr | https://crbug.com/1412729#c34 > | ✅ | > | https://register.betway.de | https://crbug.com/1412729#c25 > | ✅ | > | https://renegociacao.itau.com.br | https://crbug.com/1412729#c51 > | ✅ | > | https://signin.costco.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c12 > | ✅ | > | https://smartkey.xertica.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c19 > | ✅ | > | https://sports.coral.co.uk | https://crbug.com/1412729#c35 > | ✅ | > | https://sports.ladbrokes.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c31 > | ✅ | > | https://tazkarti.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c36 > | ✅ | > | https://voterportal.eci.gov.in | https://crbug.com/1412729#c53 > | ✅ | > | https://www.acesso.gov.pt | https://crbug.com/1412729#c26 > | ✅ | > | https://www.air.irctc.co.in | https://crbug.com/1412729#c37 > | ✅ | > | https://www.bancoestado.cl | https://crbug.com/1412729#c15 > | ✅ | > | https://www.bienlinea.bi.com.gt | https://crbug.com/1412729#c50 > | ✅ | > | https://www.coachoutlet.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c49 > | ✅ | > | https://www.enterprise.de | https://crbug.com/1412729#c40 > | ✅ | > | https://www.etopaz.az | https://crbug.com/1412729#c44 > | ✅ | > | https://www.gamestop.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c38 > | ✅ | > | https://www.iliad.it | https://crbug.com/1412729#c39 > | ✅ | > | https://www.irctctourism.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c42 > | ✅ | > | https://www.leroymerlin.fr | https://crbug.com/1412729#c18 > | ✅ | > | https://www.mediafire.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c20 > | ✅ | > | https://www.midatacredito.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c43 > | ✅ | > | https://www.milanuncios.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c30 > | ✅ | > | https://www.portaleargo.it | https://crbug.com/1412729#c14 > | ✅ | > | https://www.readworks.org | https://crbug.com/1412729#c48 > | ✅ | > | https://www.saksfifthavenue.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c46 > | ✅ | > | https://www.thebay.com | https://crbug.com/1412729#c45 > | ✅ | > > This is not quite a "random" sample, as I instead started with the most > common sources of UseCounter hits and then went down the list. I looked at > a total of 58 unique origins, but some of the sites failed to load for me, > or the offending `pattern` was hidden behind a paywall or login that I > couldn’t get past. > > WDYT? > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 1:09 PM Mathias Bynens <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 9:41 PM Philip Jägenstedt <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I wonder if we can get enough confidence with less work than >>> investigating 40 randomly chosen sites from UseCounter hits. >>> >>> This is a population proportion problem, and >>> https://sample-size.net/confidence-interval-proportion/ is a useful >>> tool. If you check 40 cases and find no breakage (N=40, x=0) that gives us >>> 95% confidence that breakage is less than 7.2% of samples in this data set. >>> If it's useful to check that much depends on the value of the use counter. >>> >>> Is https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4463 >>> the right use counter, and has it reached stable yet? Why is marked as >>> obsolete? >>> >> >> Yes, that’s the correct use counter, and yes it’s in M112. It’s marked >> “obsolete” on the site because we removed it from the source tree as part >> of M113, and ChromeStatus uses the latest HEAD as the source of truth for >> the UseCounter labels. The rationale for removing the code triggering this >> UseCounter was that a full milestone cycle (M112) should be more than >> enough data to make a decision in this particular case. >> >> >>> For purposes of illustration, let's use 0.04% from earlier in the thread >>> and say we want to be (95%) confident that real breakage is less than >>> 0.01%. Then we just need to get below 25% in the linked tool, and checking >>> 11 samples and finding nothing is enough to do this. >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 5:43 PM Mathias Bynens <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the guidance, Rick. I’ve prepared a CL moving the flag to >>>> status=experimental >>>> <https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/4447958> and >>>> I can commit to investigating 40 unique UseCounter hits and summarizing my >>>> findings. Fingers crossed the trend of “no actual breakage detected” >>>> continues. I’ll keep you posted. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 5:26 PM Rick Byers <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for doing a thorough compat analysis of this Mathias. I can >>>>> totally see this being one where all the examples we can find don't seem >>>>> to >>>>> cause breakage in practice. I know it's a lot, but if we looked at 40 >>>>> random examples and found none of them to break, that would suggest an >>>>> upper bound of <0.001% of pages impacted (probably much lower) and I'd be >>>>> OK giving this a shot with a finch killswitch ready in case of reports of >>>>> serious breakage. Does that sound reasonable to you? >>>>> >>>>> Also feel free to set your flag >>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/platform/runtime_enabled_features.json5;l=1912?q=HTMLPatternRegExpUnicodeSets%20file:.json5&ss=chromium> >>>>> to status=experimental, that'll get us some additional usage coverage >>>>> (from >>>>> the small population that runs with >>>>> --enable-experimental-web-platform-features) and also signal that this is >>>>> close to becoming shipping behavior. >>>>> >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 7:03 AM 'Mathias Bynens' via blink-dev < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> So far, none of the UseCounter hits I investigated constitute any >>>>>> actual breakage. The vast majority of hits seem to be login forms backed >>>>>> by >>>>>> server-side validation. I’ll keep looking though. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the meantime, this feature is now >>>>>> <https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/4414859> >>>>>> available behind the >>>>>> `--enable-blink-features=HTMLPatternRegExpUnicodeSets` >>>>>> flag (disabled by default). >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2023 at 5:53:10 PM UTC+2 Mathias Bynens wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 5, 2023 at 5:23 PM Alex Russell <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't understand why TAG review is not applicable for this intent. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fair enough. I’ve filed a TAG review request here: >>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/832 I’ll update the >>>>>>> ChromeStatus entry to refer to it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:21:16 AM UTC-7 [email protected] >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks to the UseCounter + UKM + M112 hitting Stable, more results >>>>>>>>> are starting to come in. I’ll be collecting public examples of >>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>> incompatibilities here: >>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1412729#c11 >>>>>>>>> So far 0 out of the 2 examples cause any actual breakage — fingers >>>>>>>>> crossed >>>>>>>>> that trend continues. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 10:26 AM Philip Jägenstedt < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I took a look at https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/7908 and it >>>>>>>>>> looks like there's agreement to merge it, but it's waiting on this >>>>>>>>>> intent >>>>>>>>>> to be approved. Normally we block in the other direction, but that's >>>>>>>>>> fine, >>>>>>>>>> as long as the spec change is merged. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Looks like there's broad support for this change, and it's just a >>>>>>>>>> question of the site compat risk. ~0.04% as an upper bound is quite >>>>>>>>>> high. >>>>>>>>>> Can we wait until the use counter is in stable and look at a random >>>>>>>>>> set of >>>>>>>>>> sites hitting the use counter to determine what the real-world >>>>>>>>>> breakage >>>>>>>>>> looks like? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 5:07 PM 'Mathias Bynens' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 4:35 PM Mike Taylor <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Mathias, >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/31/23 5:56 AM, Mathias Bynens wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/7908 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The <input pattern> attribute allows developers to specify a >>>>>>>>>>>> regular expression pattern against which the input’s values are >>>>>>>>>>>> checked for >>>>>>>>>>>> validity. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <label> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Part number: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <input pattern="[0-9][A-Z]{3}" name="part" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> title="A part number is a digit followed by three >>>>>>>>>>>> uppercase letters."> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> </label> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When the pattern attribute was first implemented, these >>>>>>>>>>>> regular expressions were compiled without any RegExp flags. In >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014, the >>>>>>>>>>>> HTML Standard changed this by implicitly enabling the u flag >>>>>>>>>>>> for the pattern attribute, enabling better Unicode support >>>>>>>>>>>> (including >>>>>>>>>>>> support for Unicode character properties like \p{Letter}). This >>>>>>>>>>>> change shipped in Chrome 53. >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/feature/4753420745441280> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now, we’re taking this to the next level by enabling the new >>>>>>>>>>>> RegExp v flag <https://v8.dev/features/regexp-v-flag> instead >>>>>>>>>>>> of u, enabling the use of set notation, string literal syntax, >>>>>>>>>>>> and Unicode properties of strings. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Context: The RegExp v flag is a JavaScript language feature >>>>>>>>>>>> which previously went through the Blink Intents process and shipped >>>>>>>>>>>> in Chrome 112 >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/feature/5144156542861312>. This new >>>>>>>>>>>> ChromeStatus entry is specifically about integrating it with the >>>>>>>>>>>> HTML >>>>>>>>>>>> pattern attribute.) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Blink component >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Blink>Forms >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EForms> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Search tags >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> unicode <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:unicode>, >>>>>>>>>>>> regexp <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:regexp>, pattern >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:pattern>, validation >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:validation> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review >>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review status >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not applicable >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The spec patch at https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/7908 >>>>>>>>>>>> lists the potentially breaking changes. Some patterns that >>>>>>>>>>>> previously would >>>>>>>>>>>> compile, now throw an early error with the v flag — >>>>>>>>>>>> specifically those with a character class including either an >>>>>>>>>>>> unescaped >>>>>>>>>>>> special character or a double punctuator. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We expect such patterns to be rare. To validate this assumption >>>>>>>>>>>> we’ve added a UseCounter called >>>>>>>>>>>> HTMLPatternRegExpUnicodeSetIncompatibilitiesWithUnicodeMode >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/popularity#HTMLPatternRegExpUnicodeSetIncompatibilitiesWithUnicodeMode> >>>>>>>>>>>> in M112, which tracks patterns in any JavaScript u RegExps >>>>>>>>>>>> generated via the HTML pattern attribute that would throw if >>>>>>>>>>>> they were used with the v flag. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Importantly, note that any throwing pattern gracefully degrades >>>>>>>>>>>> — it simply behaves as if the pattern attribute wasn’t >>>>>>>>>>>> present, resulting in inputElement.validity.valid === true for >>>>>>>>>>>> any input value. Consequently, the only compatibility risk is that >>>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>> value/pattern combinations that would previously result in >>>>>>>>>>>> inputElement.validity.valid being false now result in it being >>>>>>>>>>>> true. Thus, for every UseCounter hit, it could still be that >>>>>>>>>>>> there is no actual breakage — the UseCounter just gives us the >>>>>>>>>>>> upper bound. The currently available data from Beta suggests >>>>>>>>>>>> the UseCounter hits for 0.0393% of Chrome page loads. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm somewhat curious to see how much that UseCounter will grow >>>>>>>>>>>> (if at all) when 112 goes to stable next week... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Me too, and FWIW I'd understand if you and the other API owners >>>>>>>>>>> prefer to wait until there’s some data for Stable before responding >>>>>>>>>>> to this >>>>>>>>>>> Intent. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have any concerns about certain inputs being sent to a >>>>>>>>>>>> server that might not have any backend validation, that would >>>>>>>>>>>> previously be >>>>>>>>>>>> prevented by the u-vintage validation? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That’s indeed the only scenario in which there would be >>>>>>>>>>> breakage. So far we haven’t heard of such cases in the wild. >>>>>>>>>>> (Arguably, >>>>>>>>>>> such web pages are already broken, since DevTools could easily be >>>>>>>>>>> used to >>>>>>>>>>> remove the `pattern` attribute, or requests could be made with >>>>>>>>>>> tools like >>>>>>>>>>> `curl`.) FWIW, there was a similar discussion in this old blink-dev >>>>>>>>>>> thread: >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/XUNMtri0tI4/m/mjPkwXKNAQAJ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I forgot to mention that we explicitly added a console warning >>>>>>>>>>> in M112 for any `pattern` attribute values that would be affected >>>>>>>>>>> by this >>>>>>>>>>> change, to help developers prepare for the potential change. One >>>>>>>>>>> developer >>>>>>>>>>> reported seeing the warning and adjusting their `pattern` attribute >>>>>>>>>>> values >>>>>>>>>>> accordingly, but it’s unclear whether inaction would have really >>>>>>>>>>> broken >>>>>>>>>>> their web page: >>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1412729#c7 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Positive (Mozilla standards position request >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/745>, >>>>>>>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>>>>>>> tracking issue >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=pattern-v>) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Positive (WebKit standards position request >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/132>, >>>>>>>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>>>>>>> tracking issue >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=pattern-v>) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: No signals >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Other signals: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The pattern attribute is already well-supported in DevTools >>>>>>>>>>>> and other tooling; no changes are necessary. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pull Request: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/38547 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Flag name >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> N/A >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> False >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1412729 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sample links >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://mathiasbynens.be/demo/pattern-u-vs-v >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> M114 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5149507107422208 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADizRgaAq4FwzJbUqLQVo%2BQdd_V0PT7rBr510OGe8fenHA%3D3HQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADizRgaAq4FwzJbUqLQVo%2BQdd_V0PT7rBr510OGe8fenHA%3D3HQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/c9571b2a-a35b-3824-0f37-c93a9bb522fc%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/c9571b2a-a35b-3824-0f37-c93a9bb522fc%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADizRgYxU2v2ANQgzNiLD%2B4P-qJHxzTYJfRDsKNCtY0Yb_0bdg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADizRgYxU2v2ANQgzNiLD%2B4P-qJHxzTYJfRDsKNCtY0Yb_0bdg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/bf73fe5b-fde2-42df-90f0-582a905d1948n%40chromium.org >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/bf73fe5b-fde2-42df-90f0-582a905d1948n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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