On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:47 PM 'Harald Alvestrand' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 9:29 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> A few questions raised at the API OWNERS meeting today. >> >> On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 1:34:11 PM UTC+2 Harald Alvestrand wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:10 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What would breakage look like? >>>> >>> >>> Once the feature is gone (the end state), anyone attempting to set up a >>> connection using SDES will have their session rejected. >>> Anyone attempting to set the constraint will just have it ignored, like >>> any other unsupported value in a dictionary. >>> >> >> OK. Any enterprise risk here? Are you aware of any enterprise apps using >> this? >> > > I doubt it. There is no real reason for using it; DTLS is safer and > simpler to configure. > > >> >> >>> >>> I'm thinking that we should add an intermediate step where anyone >>> attempting to configure SDES has the constructor throw rather than ignoring >>> the member. >>> >> >> An unhandled exception seems more risky than a silent failure here, right? >> Any reason to think console warnings won't be enough? >> > > The connection won't go through anyway unless both ends of the connection > upgrade at the same time; throwing is a failure that is more obvious. > When things fail, I like to have them fail for obvious reasons. > On the other hand, an unhandled exception will break the whole site, whereas otherwise it'll silently fail and the site will otherwise work. > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>> What's the requested timeline for the deprecation part of this? >>>> >>> >>> I'd like to get the deprecation warning in 95 (stable Oct 19), start >>> throwing in 97 (stable Jan 4), and removing the code entirely in 99 (stable >>> Mar 1). >>> >>> >>>> Any plans for targeted outreach for the remaining users? >>>> >>> >>> Only the usual PSA on webrtc-users and discuss-webrtc + word of mouth. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 11:05 AM 'Philipp Hancke' via blink-dev < >>>> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> stats here: >>>>> https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2383 >>>>> >>>> >>>> Impressive decline in usage! >>>> >>>> >>>>> Away with it! >>>>> >>>>> Am Do., 26. Aug. 2021 um 10:45 Uhr schrieb 'Harald Alvestrand' via >>>>> blink-dev <blink-dev@chromium.org>: >>>>> >>>>>> Contact emails...@chromium.org >>>>>> >>>>>> ExplainerNone >>>>>> >>>>>> Specificationhttps://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8826#section-4.3.1 >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary >>>>>> >>>>>> The SDES key exchange mechanism for WebRTC has been declared a MUST >>>>>> NOT in the relevant IETF standards since 2013. The SDES specification has >>>>>> been declared Historic by the IETF. Its usage in Chrome has declined >>>>>> significantly over the recent year. This intent is to deprecate and >>>>>> remove >>>>>> this code from Chromium and WebRTC. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink componentBlink>WebRTC>Network >>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EWebRTC%3ENetwork> >>>>>> >>>>>> Motivation >>>>>> >>>>>> The reason why SDES is deprecated is that it is a security problem: >>>>>> It exposes session keys to Javascript, which means that entities with >>>>>> access to the negotiation exchange, or with the ability to subvert the >>>>>> Javascript, can decrypt the media sent over the connection. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Initial public proposal >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>> >>>>>> Risks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gecko: No signal >>>>>> >>>>>> WebKit: No signal >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> Filing for signals may be an overkill here, but are there bugs filed on >>>> other implementers asking them to follow? >>>> >>> >> Is SDES shipped in other browsers? What's the status there? >> > > I believe that neither Firefox nor WebKit ever shipped SDES, but I put "no > signal" because I haven't checked. > Could you check and update the status accordingly? > > >> >> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Web developers: No signals >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> When this feature is removed, people attempting to set up such a >>>>>> connection will fail to do so. This should be easy to diagnose. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>> ?No >>>>>> >>>>>> Flag name >>>>>> >>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>> >>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/webrtc/11066 >>>>>> >>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> https://www.chromestatus.com/feature/5695324321480704 >>>>>> >>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOqqYVFNbzG24kGbRFT1sMAroU4ifwv%2BpkA0kU2vkmpHFSgDrQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOqqYVFNbzG24kGbRFT1sMAroU4ifwv%2BpkA0kU2vkmpHFSgDrQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJrgemVNeyGP5bw%3Dp40%2Bwc6Zbxi3q-CRWpqV%2BpU%3Dk8%2BgQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJrgemVNeyGP5bw%3Dp40%2Bwc6Zbxi3q-CRWpqV%2BpU%3Dk8%2BgQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOqqYVEXR9LuZEoJEg6yVSoLBa40qV6Qu7Grh76fdmEhfXcduw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOqqYVEXR9LuZEoJEg6yVSoLBa40qV6Qu7Grh76fdmEhfXcduw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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