taproot does not enable anything that cannot already be done today. it only enables larger and more complex scripts to be done more efficiently - using less ledger space.
so any objections you can have should be leveled at bitcoin, not at taproot. On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 6:39 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > "Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. > Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information, it > is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this transaction > has occured." > > Good Afternoon, > > Requiring little argument I concur, privacy allows that you do not have > snoops and researchers following you around looking in your purse as you > transact. For the general public, how much you carry in your purse and where > you get it from is none of their business. However, your employer is required > to report to the government a record of pay, or at least maintain that > record, and the store where you made a purchase similarly to keep records so > that taxes can be paid. From their perspective, you do not need to know how > much they keep in their drawer. Bitcoin directly allows your purse to be > private and for the transaction ledger to take the scrutiny anyone should be > able to apply to prove the ledger is honest. Maintaining an argument that > consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove that it is honest. > > KING JAMES HRMH > Great British Empire > > Regards, > The Australian > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > Wills > > et al. > > > Willtech > www.willtech.com.au > www.go-overt.com > and other projects > > earn.com/willtech > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > > m. 0487135719 > f. +61261470192 > > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this email > if misdelivered. > ________________________________ > From: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on behalf > of Daniel Edgecumbe via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2021 12:16 PM > To: M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > Any "transparency" in the blockchain, beyond that required for a participant > to determine valid ownership, can only reasonably be thought of as a bug. > > Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. > Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this information, it > is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party that this transaction > has occured. > > Bitcoin is digital cash. > > Daniel Edgecumbe | esotericnonsense > em...@esotericnonsense.com | https://esotericnonsense.com > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2021, at 22:37, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > To be clear, is this a NACK because Taproot reduces “transparency” > > (increases privacy) on the chain (“maintaining consensus” is obviously > > an argument against any protocol change, so that’s a red herring)? > > > > And is it your theory that only an “honest” (statute abiding) person > > should have privacy, and not against the state, and/or that mixers are > > sufficient privacy? > > > > Personally, I’m not moved by such an argument. What do you think is the > > value proposition of Bitcoin? > > > > e > > > > > On Mar 1, 2021, at 14:21, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev > > > <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Good Afternoon, > > > > > > I am going to take tough terms with much of your reply and do appreciate > > > a courteous practice. Having previously made public disclosure of my > > > affiliation with Jambler.io it seems sufficient to disclose my > > > affiliation through the link in my email signature block. > > > > > > My concern is not increased privacy it is maintaining consensus values > > > and the transparency of the blockchain wherein all transactions are > > > published in an immutable record and that forbids the redaction of > > > information by any obfuscation. A separate concern is the availability of > > > a privacy suitable for cash should a Bitcoin user desire and especially > > > without disturbing the existing consensus. > > > > > > The use of a Bitcoin Mixer is to enable standard equivalent privacy. As > > > you may experience yourself, you do not allow people to follow you around > > > looking in your purse, suppose you are dealing entirely with cash, and to > > > see where and how much you fill it up, and where you spend. Nonetheless, > > > for an honest person, their wallet is available for government audit as > > > are their financial affairs. This is consistent with the existing > > > operation of consensus. > > > > > > My full email signature block is a disclosure where I have some > > > affiliation with the referenced website being that it carries at least > > > some information that I have provided or that in some way I am associated > > > perhaps only making use of their services. For example, I hardly make a > > > profit from LinkedIn just my information is there. Also, I have made > > > previous public disclosure of the affiliation. Bitcoin Mixer 2.0 is a > > > partner mixer run by Jambler.io wherein I receive a service referral fee > > > and am not in receipt of any part of the process transaction. The > > > operation block diagram provided by Jambler.io is provided here and > > > attached. > > > <ip.bitcointalk.org.png> > > > > > > [ip.bitcointalk.org.png]-Operation of Jambler.io partner mixer > > > https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fscheme-1.png&t=622&c=gTi7r1cfh-yynw > > > from this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5267588 > > > > > > > > > The installation script provided by Jambler.io that is the basis of my > > > referral website is also publicly published, > > > https://github.com/jambler-io/bitcoin-mixer > > > > > > The disclosure for the partner program is available from Jambler.io > > > however and is made prominently on my referral website. While it may seem > > > lucrative at first I insist all partner profits are reportable on your > > > personal income. > > > https://jambler.io/become-partner.php > > > > > > I am certainly better than confident that you appreciate the difference > > > between an open and transparent blockchain and the ability of the user to > > > not reveal details of the content of their wallet publicly. > > > > > > If further clarification is required may I suggest you pay a token and > > > mix some Bitcoin wherein our discussion may then have some point of > > > reference. > > > > > > KING JAMES HRMH > > > Great British Empire > > > > > > Regards, > > > The Australian > > > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > > Wills > > > > > > et al. > > > > > > > > > Willtech > > > www.willtech.com.au > > > www.go-overt.com > > > and other projects > > > > > > earn.com/willtech > > > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > > > > > > > > m. 0487135719 > > > f. +61261470192 > > > > > > > > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this > > > email if misdelivered. > > > *From:* Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces <ariellua...@gmail.com> > > > *Sent:* Monday, 1 March 2021 12:07 AM > > > *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willt...@live.com.au>; Bitcoin > > > Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > > > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > > > > > Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH > > > > > > I find a striking dichotomy between your concern of increased privacy in > > > bitcoin and your link to a bitcoin mixer in your signature > > > www.go-overt.com > > > > > > At first your concerns seemed genuine but after seeing your promotion of > > > a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your concerns may be more profit motivated? > > > I can't tell since you failed to disclose your relationship with the > > > mixer. > > > > > > Could you please clarify your association with the bitcoin mixer and > > > moving forward could you please always do proper disclosure any time > > > you're publically talking about bitcoin transaction privacy. It's only > > > fair to do so as to not mislead people in an attempt to manipulate at > > > worst and just a courteous practice at best. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces > > > On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > > > bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > >> Good Evening, > > >> > > >> Thank-you for your advice @JeremyRubin > > >> <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> on the basis you advise, "Taproot > > >> does not enable monero-like privacy features", I am prepred to withdraw > > >> my NACK notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be > > >> maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the > > >> PayTo Address, and the amount all without any obfuscation. > > >> > > >> Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result of a > > >> subset of transactions although the operation of the channel is > > >> observable to the parties. > > >> > > >> The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot > > >> published in a public media channel may have been speculation or > > >> misinformation nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you > > >> see that I have. It is important not to allow things to slip through the > > >> cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could make a full > > >> disclosure to this list it is not to be expected. > > >> > > >> KING JAMES HRMH > > >> Great British Empire > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> The Australian > > >> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > >> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > >> MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > >> Wills > > >> > > >> et al. > > >> > > >> > > >> Willtech > > >> www.willtech.com.au > > >> www.go-overt.com > > >> and other projects > > >> > > >> earn.com/willtech > > >> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > >> > > >> > > >> m. 0487135719 > > >> f. +61261470192 > > >> > > >> > > >> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this > > >> email if misdelivered. > > >> *From:* Jeremy <jlru...@mit.edu> > > >> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM > > >> *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willt...@live.com.au>; Bitcoin > > >> Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > > >> > > >> I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy > > >> features any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, > > >> taproot is a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less > > >> expensive, done so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy > > >> dependent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like way you mention). > > >> For example, it makes it possible for lightning channels to look > > >> structurally similar to single key wallets, but it does nothing > > >> inherently to obfuscate the transaction graph as in monero. > > >> > > >> Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist in > > >> Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, > > >> etc) with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot. > > >> > > >> Do you have a source on your reporting? > > >> > > >> You may wish to rescind your nack. > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> > > >> <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via > > >> bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > >>> Good Afternoon, > > >>> > > >>> It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like features > > >>> including the ability to hide transactions. > > >>> > > >>> If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain. > > >>> > > >>> A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full > > >>> transaction is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so > > >>> that transactions may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government > > >>> would have unlimited impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that > > >>> is the reason India has been reported to have banned cryptocurrencies > > >>> already. > > >>> > > >>> I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming the > > >>> established robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core > > >>> functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered. > > >>> > > >>> KING JAMES HRMH > > >>> Great British Empire > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> The Australian > > >>> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > > >>> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > > >>> MR. Damian A. James Williamson > > >>> Wills > > >>> > > >>> et al. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Willtech > > >>> www.willtech.com.au > > >>> www.go-overt.com > > >>> and other projects > > >>> > > >>> earn.com/willtech > > >>> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> m. 0487135719 > > >>> f. +61261470192 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this > > >>> email if misdelivered. > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list > > >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > >> > > >> bitcoin-dev mailing list > > >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > <ip.bitcointalk.org.png> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
