Completely understood for a standards specifications with normative
dependencies.

I think we are close to seeing light at the end of the tunnel for the encap
draft.

Kind Regards

Gyan

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 2:57 PM Jeff Tantsura <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Gyan,
>
> Normative references have to be at least at the same level of maturity as
> the document referring. Just common sense. While it often creates rather
> complex dependencies, it is a healthy precaution.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
> On Apr 24, 2021, at 10:14, Gyan Mishra <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> That’s fabulous news that everyone has implemented!!
>
> Unfortunate on the red tape with the turn around to RFC.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Gyan
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 8:29 AM John E Drake <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Yes, and everyone has implemented it.  Unfortunately, it had an
>> inadvertent normative reference to the tunnel encapsulation attribute and
>> hence has been in the RFC Editor queue for over three years.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yours Irrespectively,
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Juniper Business Use Only
>>
>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 23, 2021 6:21 PM
>> *To:* Ali Sajassi (sajassi) <[email protected]>; BESS <[email protected]>;
>> Jeff Tantsura <[email protected]>; John E Drake <[email protected]>;
>> Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Fwd: [bess] VXLAN BGP EVPN Question
>>
>>
>>
>> *[External Email. Be cautious of content]*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Authors
>>
>>
>>
>> Do we know if this draft will progress to RFC?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-dci-evpn-overlay-10
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-dci-evpn-overlay-10__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Vg9pxTtcOdgw7cYL_Ze1TyY-pXZUmyMf3uJyvPslpcQNVpijlvjvRwzvkEMMBHM$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a very useful draft for intra DC multi pod NVO3 solutions with
>> multiple vendors.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: *Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)* <
>> [email protected]>
>> Date: Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: [bess] VXLAN BGP EVPN Question
>> To: Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>, Jeff Tantsura <
>> [email protected]>
>> CC: BESS <[email protected]>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> If I may, note that:
>>
>>
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-dci-evpn-overlay-10#section-4.6
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-dci-evpn-overlay-10*section-4.6__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Vg9pxTtcOdgw7cYL_Ze1TyY-pXZUmyMf3uJyvPslpcQNVpijlvjvRwzvfKkPzi4$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Also provides vxlan segmentation, and while the description is based on
>> DCI, you can perfectly use it for inter-pod connectivity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *BESS <[email protected]> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Date: *Friday, April 24, 2020 at 5:21 AM
>> *To: *Jeff Tantsura <[email protected]>
>> *Cc: *BESS <[email protected]>
>> *Subject: *Re: [bess] VXLAN BGP EVPN Question
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes - Cisco has a draft for multi site for use cases capability of inter
>> pod or inter site segmented path between desperate POD fabrics intra DC or
>> as DCI option inter DC without MPLS.  The segmentation localizes BUM
>> traffic and has border gateway DF election for BUM traffic that is
>> segmented stitched between PODs as I mentioned similar to inter-as L3 vpn
>> opt b.  There is a extra load as you said on the BGW border gateway
>> performing the network vtep dencap from leaf and then again encap towards
>> the egress border gateway.  Due to that extra load on the border gateway
>> it’s not recommended to have spine function on BGW thus an extra layer for
>> multi site to be scalable.  Definitely requires proprietary asic and not
>> merchant silicon or white box solution.  The BUM traffic is much reduced as
>> you stated from multi fabric connected super spine or single fabric spine
>> that contains all leafs.  That decoupling sounds like incongruent control
>> and data plane with Mac only Type 2 routes which would result in more BUM
>> traffic  but it sounds like that maybe trade off of conversation learning
>> only active flows versus entire data center wide Mac VRF being learned
>> everywhere.  I wonder if their is an option to have that real decoupling of
>> EVPN control plane and vxlan data plane overlay that does not impact
>> convergence but adds stability and only active flow Type 2 Mac learner
>> across the fabric.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharma-multi-site-evpn/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharma-multi-site-evpn/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Vg9pxTtcOdgw7cYL_Ze1TyY-pXZUmyMf3uJyvPslpcQNVpijlvjvRwzvPV5PoSI$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:04 PM Jeff Tantsura <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> "Multi site” is not really an IETF terminology, this is a solution
>> implement by NX-OS, there’s a draft though. Its main functionality is to
>> localize VxLAN tunnels and provide segmented path vs end2end full mesh of
>> VxLAN tunnels (participating in the same EVI). We are talking HER here.
>>
>> The feature is heavily HW dependent as it requires BUM re-encapsulation
>> at the boundaries (leaf1->BGW1-BGW2->leaf2..n). So good luck seeing it soon
>> on low end silicon.
>>
>> It doesn’t eliminate BUM traffic but significantly reduces the span of
>> “broadcast domain” and reduces the need for large flood domains (modern HW
>> gives you ~512 large flood groups, obviously depending on HW)
>>
>>
>>
>> Wrt your question about Mac conversation learning - this is an
>> implementation issue, nothing in EVPN specifications precludes you of doing
>> so, moreover in the implementation I was designing (in my previous life) we
>> indeed decoupled data plane learning from control plane advertisement so
>> control plane was aware of “Active” flows.  Needless to say - this creates
>>  an additional layer of complexity and all kinds of funky states in the
>> system ;-).
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2020, 8:30 AM -0700, Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>,
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Slight clarification with the arp traffic.  What I meant was broadcast
>> traffic translated into BUM traffic with the EVPN architecture is there any
>> way to reduce the amount of BUM traffic with a data center design
>> requirement with vlan anywhere sprawl with 1000s of type 2 Mac mobility
>> routes being learned between all the leaf VTEPs.
>>
>>
>>
>> The elimination of broadcast is a tremendous gain and with broadcast
>> suppression of multicast that does help but it would be nice to not have
>> such massive Mac tables type 2 route churn chatter with a conversation
>> learning where only active flows are are in the type 2 rib.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:47 PM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> In the description of the vxlan BGP evpn scenario has a typo on the
>> multisite feature segmented LSP inter pod with the RT auto rewrite which is
>> similar to MPLS inter-as option b not a.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:57 PM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> All
>>
>>
>>
>> Had a question related to vxlan BGP EVPN architecture specifications
>> defined in BGP EVPN NVO3 overlay RFC 8365 and VXLAN data plane RFC 7348.
>>
>>
>>
>> In a Data Center environment where you have a multiple PODs individual
>> fabrics per POD connected via a super spine extension using a Multi site
>> feature doing auto rewrite of RTs to stitch the NVE tunnel between pods
>> similar to inter-as option A.
>>
>>
>>
>> So in this scenario where you have vlan sprawl everywhere with L2 and L3
>> VNIs everywhere as if it were a a single L2 domain.  The topology is a
>> typical vxlan spine leaf topology where the L3 leafs are the TOR switch so
>> very small physical  L2 fault domain. So I was wondering if with the vxlan
>> architecture if this feature below is possible or if their is a way to do
>> so in the current specification.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cisco use to have a DC product called “fabric path” which was based on
>> conversation learning.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any way with existing vxlan BGP evpn specification or maybe
>> future enhancement to have a Mac conversation learning capability so that
>> only the active mac’s that are part of a conversations flow are the mac
>> that are flooded throughout the vxlan fabric.  That would really help
>> tremendously with arp storms so if new arp entries are generated locally on
>> a leaf they are not flooded through the fabric unless their are active
>> flows between leafs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also is there a way to filter type 2 Mac mobility routes between leaf
>> switches at the control plane level based on remote vtep or maybe other
>> parameters..  That would also reduce arp storms BUM traffic.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.verizon.com/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Vg9pxTtcOdgw7cYL_Ze1TyY-pXZUmyMf3uJyvPslpcQNVpijlvjvRwzvJ9vmSpU$>
>> <~WRD0000.jpg>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.verizon.com/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!Vg9pxTtcOdgw7cYL_Ze1TyY-pXZUmyMf3uJyvPslpcQNVpijlvjvRwzvJ9vmSpU$>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>> *Email [email protected] <[email protected]>*
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347*
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
> *Email [email protected] <[email protected]>*
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347*
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *

*Email [email protected] <[email protected]>*



*M 301 502-1347*
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