Hi Jorge, Yes having different income accounts makes sense if you are interested in knowing the details. Interest needs to go vs income/expenses as it's an outflow, you can't get it back when you sell the flat, so it shouldn't increase your loan.
Regards, Patrick On November 28, 2021 12:14:24 PM GMT+01:00, "Jorge Martínez López" <jorg...@jorgeml.me> wrote: >Hello Patrick, > >Thanks again! > >Is there any reason why the payment for the interest expenses cannot >be done against the Liabilities (loan Jorge and Partner) instead of >the Income accounts? That way the liability accounts would track the >whole amount going into the flat (Asset + Mortgage Interest) while the >Income accounts would track the 50%/50% contributions to the regular >ongoing expenses. >If the reason to use Income is to balance Assets and Liabilities, and >Income and Expenses... would it be correct to have a separate account >for Income to track each of our contributions towards paying the >interest? > >Income:Jorge:Shared (<-- 50% ongoing expenses) >Income:Jorge:Mortgage (<-- 70% of the interest expenses) >Income:Partner:Shared (<-- 50% ongoing expenses) >Income:Partner:Mortgage (<-- 30% if the interest expenses) > >(I'm hoping our lender breaks down how much goes into the interest and >how much into the principal on a monthly basis, otherwise it's going >to be interesting). > >Kind regards, >Jorge > >On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 09:48, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount ><beancount@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Jorge, >> >> >> If the monthly contributions are interest (so not reducing the principal >> of the loan), they are expenses, so I would model it like this >> >> Income:Jorge -200 >> Income:Partner -100 >> Expenses:Interest 300 >> >> >> If they are paying back some of the principal, I would model it like >> this (basically you are shifting the loan from the bank to you and your >> partner) >> >> Liabilities:LoanJorge -600 >> Liabilities:LoanPartner -100 >> Liabilities:LoanBank 700 >> >> >> If it's a combination you will have both. >> >> Regards, >> Patrick >> >> On 28.11.2021 10:15, Jorge Martínez López wrote: >> > Hi Patrick, >> > >> > This is indeed quite useful and does exactly what I need, thanks a lot. >> > >> > For the sake of completeness, I assume that monthly contributions >> > towards the mortgage would look like this on the shared ledger: >> > >> > Liabilities:LoanJorge -800 >> > Liabilities:LoanPartner -200 >> > Liabilities:LoanBank 700 >> > Expenses:Interest 300 >> > >> > Kind regards, >> > Jorge >> > >> > On Sat, 27 Nov 2021 at 19:21, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount >> > <beancount@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> It's always about splitting income/expense from asset flows >> >> >> >> >> >> So to give a more complete example for buying a flat. >> >> >> >> My assumptions >> >> >> >> - deposit is 5000, you pay 3000, your partner 2000 >> >> >> >> - you pay an additional 10000 for the flat out of assets, you 8000, >> >> partner 2000 >> >> >> >> - you take on a common loan from a bank for 20000 >> >> >> >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat >> >> >> >> +3000 Deposit >> >> >> >> +8000 Purchase >> >> >> >> Expenses:Common >> >> >> >> + 1000 >> >> >> >> >> >> Partner >> >> >> >> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat >> >> >> >> +2000 Deposit >> >> >> >> +2000 Purchase >> >> >> >> Expenses:Common >> >> >> >> +1000 >> >> >> >> >> >> Common >> >> >> >> Assets:Flat >> >> >> >> +3000 from Liabilities:LoanJorge (Deposit) >> >> >> >> +2000 from Liabilities:LoanPartner (Deposit) >> >> >> >> +8000 from Liabilities:LoanJorge (Purchase) >> >> >> >> +2000 from Liabilities:LoanPartner (Purchase) >> >> >> >> +20000 from Liabilities:LoanBank >> >> >> >> Liabilities:LoanBank >> >> >> >> -20000 >> >> >> >> Liabilities:LoanJorge >> >> >> >> -3000 >> >> >> >> -8000 >> >> >> >> Liabilities:LoanPartner >> >> >> >> -2000 >> >> >> >> -2000 >> >> >> >> Income:Jorge >> >> >> >> +1000 >> >> >> >> Income:Partner >> >> >> >> +1000 >> >> >> >> Expenses:Fees >> >> >> >> -2000 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 27.11.2021 10:20, Jorge Martínez López wrote: >> >>> Hello, >> >>> >> >>> Thanks Patrick! >> >>> >> >>> Your model makes sense. From the individual ledger point of view, do >> >>> you also include the interest paid in the transfer to >> >>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat? Or would you transfer it to >> >>> Expenses:Shared or Expenses:Interest? >> >>> >> >>> In the common ledger I still have the issue that the one-off large >> >>> contribution to the deposit (from Income:Jorge and Income:Partner to >> >>> Assets:Home:Deposit) is significantly larger than our normal monthly >> >>> incomes and expenses, so the charts in the income statement are now a >> >>> bit unreadable. Is there any way around this? What about the monthly >> >>> contribution, would you create separate income accounts for regular >> >>> expenses (at 50%) and flat contributions? >> >>> >> >>> Thanks again for your help! >> >>> >> >>> Kind regards, >> >>> Jorge >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 10:42, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount >> >>> <beancount@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>>> Hi Jorge, >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> The way I would model this is, to model the flat itself as an asset and >> >>>> the contributions to the flat as loans. Something like this >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Jorge >> >>>> >> >>>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Partner >> >>>> >> >>>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Common >> >>>> >> >>>> Assets:Flat >> >>>> >> >>>> Liabilities:LoanJorge >> >>>> >> >>>> Liabilities:LoanPartner >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Because in the end this is not an expense, but a change of "assets". You >> >>>> "converted" cash into a flat. >> >>>> >> >>>> That should solve both your problems. >> >>>> >> >>>> One time fees for the purchase would be modeled as expenses but the main >> >>>> part of the money should be converted into the asset with the value of >> >>>> the flat. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Regards, >> >>>> >> >>>> Patrick >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On 26.11.2021 11:32, Jorge Martínez López wrote: >> >>>>> Hi folks, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Just wanted to run this through the group to make sure I'm doing >> >>>>> things the right way. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I have been using Beancount for a couple of years. I started with a >> >>>>> single ledger but then moved to two: one to track my own income and >> >>>>> expenses, the other for shared expenses with my partner (bills and >> >>>>> groceries). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> For the shared expenses every month I transfer some money from my >> >>>>> personal bank account to our joint account. In my personal ledger that >> >>>>> goes to "Expenses:Shared:Partner", and in the shared ledger that comes >> >>>>> from "Income:Jorge" (and Income:Partner for her transfers). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> That has worked very well but now there is a slight complication as we >> >>>>> are going to buy a flat and while we will still pay the bills 50% / >> >>>>> 50%, I'll be paying a slightly higher share of the flat. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The first hurdle is that now the "Income:Jorge" and "Income:Partner" >> >>>>> accounts in the shared ledger are not balanced 50% / 50%. I was >> >>>>> thinking about using separate "Income" accounts for contributions to >> >>>>> the flat or perhaps using tags to exclude tagged transactions in the >> >>>>> fava dashboards but I can't find the way to do it. Moreover, I guess >> >>>>> that I'd also need subaccounts on the "Expenses" and "Liabilities" >> >>>>> accounts (for interests and mortgage)? >> >>>>> The other thing that doesn't look entirely right is that as soon as we >> >>>>> transfer the money for the deposit into the joint account the scaling >> >>>>> of the Fava charts went much higher so our normal income and expenses >> >>>>> are now almost invisible. Which makes me think... Perhaps I'm doing >> >>>>> this wrong and should track the flat on a separate third ledger? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I'm hoping this is a rather common scenario and most folks have >> >>>>> cracked this. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kind regards, >> >>>>> Jorge >> >>>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>> Groups "Beancount" group. >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> >>>> an email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/13cfdb77-8fbc-d0e7-671c-867cbe158971%40ch.tario.org. >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> >> "Beancount" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> >> email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/f3a65da9-5af7-f934-1a77-65569213d8bf%40ch.tario.org. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Beancount" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/6c6a0278-9f21-2d50-cc40-d2a16e4cb38d%40ch.tario.org. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Beancount" group. 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