I have to say, I'm with Ian and Ello here. The 24px vertical space is only * wasted*, i.e. not usable by any application, when you are using non-maximized windows, and using non-maximized windows basically means you don't need those 24px anyway. Now, when you'd move the panel to the bottom, that's wasting 24px of vertical space: an application's title bar uses 24px, and the bottom panel uses 24px. Makes a total of 48px, 24px more than the panel at the top.
If you're looking to free some space at the top, I think something like the old Wingpanel is the best solution: http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/sipzz.jpg Full article: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/wingpanel-elementarys-slick-new-space-saving-panel/ I think if all windows would have the titlebar like photoshop's, the environment would be very cluttered and therefore cumbersome to use. I made a quick mockup how the wingpanel would work in unity: http://i.imgur.com/5lmbS.png Joost On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:15 AM, ello <tenniswithshov...@gmail.com> wrote: > But don't all designers take into account the title bar of the window? > Don't all the features you talk about appear under it? Since, when > maximised, the panel is the title bar, I don't see how this is a > concern. Have I missed something? > > On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 01:00 +0200, Niklas Rosenqvist wrote: > > 2011/5/25 Ian Santopietro <isan...@gmail.com> > > > Even if we did open up the top edge as opposed to the bottom edge, > > where is the guarantee that app developers would take advantage of > > that and actually use it? > > > > > > > > The thing is that they already are. The majority of applications have > > a top-down element priority design, e.g. browsers. Almost all browsers > > today have their tabs on the very top of the application and why is > > that? Since it's much more effective to switch between them when they > > are so close to the screen edge and for me is tab-switching the most > > used function of a browser except for actually reading the content of > > a page. > > > > > > Photoshop for example makes great use of the screen edges since the > > menu is located at the top, the tools at the left, and the different > > windows at the right. If all UI-elements were located below the canvas > > the work flow would be severely crippled. The use of edges is really > > important in design, both for usability and framing content. > > > > > > Since the top-down priority is most often used it makes perfect sense > > for the design choice that Windows have, the task bar located at the > > bottom of the screen by default. > > > > > > I hope that you now understand why we try to get rid of the top panel, > > you may not agree but hopefully see our point. > > > > 2011/5/25 Ian Santopietro <isan...@gmail.com> > > The point I'm trying to make is that the current panel isn't > > broken, and moving things like that is just change for the > > sake of change. When you're trying to build a set and solid > > identity, that;s not a good thing. > > > > What really makes the bottom edge so ill-suited to placing > > interface elements? Is it really something that sets it apart > > from the top edge, or app developers wish not to place UI > > elements there? > > > > Even if we did open up the top edge as opposed to the bottom > > edge, where is the guarantee that app developers would take > > advantage of that and actually use it? Web browsers, for > > example, seem to be following a tabs on top approach to > > design. This issue with this design is that unless the user > > has focus issues, switching tabs should not be the most > > important controls. And what exactly happens to the title bar > > if we put the panel on the bottom? Does it move to the bottom? > > That's quite a large change for very little additional > > functionality. Alternatively, we can leave the title bar on > > top, but then that defeats the point behind moving the panel > > to the bottom in the first place. > > > > Even if we remove the panel, that last point holds true. We > > aren't opening up the top screen edge, only putting something > > else there. We may as well leave the panel there, as in it's > > current form it takes no additional space, and *does* provide > > functionality, unlike a title bar only or a tab bar. > > > > I haven't seen honeycomb yet. Some guy was hogging the Xoom at > > the Sprint store I visited on Sunday. > > > > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 15:29, Ed Lin <edlin...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Ian Santopietro > > <isan...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Why can't we let the top panel stay and hold the > > indicators? > > > > > > 1. Panels/notification bars are used in *every* > > major OS (Windows's is odd > > > at the bottom), from desktops like Ubuntu and OS X > > to mobile platforms like > > > Android and iOS. It's a very familiar paradigm that > > people are comfortable > > > working with. > > > > > > 2. The panel can hold lots of functionality (Title > > bar, notifications, BFB, > > > Menu) at a low cost to screen real-estate (~24px, I > > think) > > > > > > 3. Removing it requires integrating the indicators > > with the launcher, which > > > is not what either of them were designed for. > > > > > > > > > 1.) > > Why "odd"? it makes much more sense to put less > > frequently *clicked* > > elements to the bottom than to the top! (btw, have you > > seen > > honeycomb?) > > > > Familiarity isn't a good argument because a panel on a > > screen edge > > with a clock and some familiar icons is as familiar on > > the side as a > > panel at the top or bottom. This isn't a question of > > "paradigms", just > > design. > > > > Having said that, I really wouldn't mind a Unity > > bottom panel that > > consists of the launcher items and the classic > > indicators. In fact I'd > > most likely prefer it to any other alternative I've > > heard so far, > > including the two mock-ups of my own or to what's > > currently available. > > Probably not a too popular opinion as everyone would > > point at it and > > say "Windows 7 clone". This brings us to: > > > > 2. > > It's not about the 24 px, it's about screen edges. > > > > Unity takes up two whole screen edges, it only leaves > > the remaining > > two to app developers. The right side is usually > > already occupied by a > > scroll bar and the lower edge isn't very attractive > > for putting > > controls there apart from image viewers and video > > players. The top > > screen edge is the most valuable space and it should > > therefore house > > the most important controls. Sorry Unity/Ubuntu, that > > means NOT you ;) > > > > 3.) > > So? GNOME wasn't designed for a global menu, our > > western fonts weren't > > designed for vertical interfaces... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ian Santopietro > > > > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html > > > > "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast > > Ofer middangeard monnum sended" > > > > Pa gur yv y porthaur? > > > > > > Public GPG key > > (RSA): > http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >
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