+1 on actually asking users. You made a few very good points. I'd suggest that about two weeks after each new release a "Feedback" window should appear on login with the following message:
"Ubuntu is a community project and we do our best to make sure that you enjoy using it. If you'd like to suggest new features, report a bug, or just tell us what we can do better, click here. Thank you. We hope you will continue to enjoy using Ubuntu!" Regards, Natan 2009/6/16 Vincenzo Ciancia <cian...@di.unipi.it> > Martín Soto ha scritto: > >> 2009/6/16 Vincenzo Ciancia <cian...@di.unipi.it <mailto: >> cian...@di.unipi.it>> >> >> Please, let's keep the "this is something that only power user >> like/dislike" old argument out of this discussion. I see this is not >> your intention, but as we are all power users this is an effective >> dialectic technique to lower the value of our observations. >> >> >> I wouldn't want to lower the value of any observations you've made, as >> long as these are observations about other people's behavior and not about >> your own behavior, tastes or preferences. >> > > Ok, then let's summarize: I can be defined a "power user" but I am > seriously concerned with usability and not so much with customizability or > feature-loadness. I think I gained enough experience in the past to know > why the latter two are not as much important as the former. I started 12 > years ago as an FVWM advocate who liked to take one week to write his own > .fvwmrc that did a looney-tunes like introduction at login, and some snow > close to xmas - when kde and gnome did not exist. Old times :) > > This is not offtopic: I want to tell you how I was convinced to change > mentality. I read the famous gnome usability studies for gnome 2.0. Then I > stopped laughing at gnome 2.0 and its feature-less-ness. This is why I would > suggest that usability studies get published, it didn't happen this time and > we are still not convinced. > > I believe you that you and Scott are not the only guys who hate this >> feature. Still, the problem with saying "there are 20 people in Launchpad >> who hate it too" is that all of you conform a self-selected >> sample. >> > > The point is not if I hate or not something. The point is "how many" hate > this. Now there are two ways to see this. Either you want to use launchpad > features as a metric or not. In the first case you compare the number of > duplicates, subscribers (not only comments!) with other bug reports. > Comments come from vocal persons, but reports do not necessarily. So > duplicates are perhaps better than comments. > > But you need to know about statistical properties (what is the typical > distribution of the number of duplicates???). > > If you think that launchpad is biased as you explain, and I certainly AGREE > WITH YOU (surprised??), then you have to invent another way. In both cases, > saying that 20 duplicates means 20 users is a very bad estimate. You'd need > to know the average of users that suffer from a bug w.r.t. those who take > the burden to try to report it. AFAIK we do not have ANY CLUE about that. > Unless we start messaging a bit in the default distribution about bugs we > will never have this metric, but I guess that going out and talking to your > friends can give _you_ a good idea on the impression of people about the > popup. I did that and reactions are laughters or just "I don't care about > updates anyway". > > >> Now let's get to the point of which evidence we have that people do not >> like popups in general. For update-notification, if you want evidence, >> again, create a poll and find a way to gather the opinion of users. I >> won't do that because I already have good experience. >> >> >> The risk of such a poll is the same: Self selection. Obviously, people are >> much more likely to participate if the are bothered by the feature, which >> will immediately introduce a strong bias. >> > > Then a good idea *may be* to put a general poll in the testing distribution > that all users are strongly encouraged to take. There you can discuss the > 4-5 big changes of every distribution (those that typically go in the > release notes). Just an idea. > > Even better: we can actually implement, or mockup in a clear way, the > possible design choices, and then in the poll ask users to test each choice > for some time, and in the end tell us what they preferred. After all testing > is for testing and for reporting. Why must testers jailed into bug finding? > Can't they also be involved in the decision process? I will propose this as > a separate thread but is ayatana the good place? Perhaps > ubuntu-devel-discuss would be better. > > Although I'm a > >> scientist, I'm not an expert in this kind of research, so I guess I'll ask >> my poll-designing colleagues here at work what they would do in such a >> situation and see if they have a better answer. >> > > There must be one! Please report your findings. > > You are speaking about pop-ups here, but the update notifier is rather a >> "pop-under". It remains discretely behind other windows until you select it. >> The only way it can be intrusive, as you already pointed out, is by getting >> in your way when you're trying to switch windows with Alt+Tab. >> > > Not only, also by closing the window which is over. Then you find this and > wonder "hey, since when this thing is here?". And you are certainly not > guaranteed that closing e.g. evolution means not being already late to start > serious work :) In any case, finding a window already opened the user will > probably not want to act *right now*, and then will close it. > > Achieving a less disturbing system is, of course, a valuable goal. The >> problem here is that if your system is, for example, running an insecure >> network stack or a file system module that may destroy all of your data, >> you'd rather be disturbed about it. >> > > Yes this was a strongly advocated point in favour of the new system. I just > still think that the red-border white triangle with an exclamation mark in > the notification area would be as good. > > >> > . I would expect most people to just confirm the updates and keep >> > going with their lives >> >> Are you saying that you really NEVER experienced an upgrade that >> creates >> a problem? I use my computer to work. Sometimes I just can't afford the >> risk that the thing breaks, even in minor aspects. E.g. when I am >> preparing a presentation or I am under a deadline. For this reasons the >> popup cannot be that frequent, it'd be annoying to people like me. >> >> >> I'm starting to wonder if we are speaking about the same piece of >> software. In my case, the pop-under remains quietly in the background. I can >> ignore it for as long as I need. I was never forced by my system to apply >> updates when I didn't want to. Am I missing something here? >> >> > No come on. If I really am working I don't want other windows opened at > all, I must be concentrated, so I close the window. For me it is important > to work concentrated in a clean environment. I keep as less windows opened > as possible because I must be able to find the right one shortly. Keeping a > window that I don't need opened is annoying for me. Therefore I close it and > then I forget to apply updates e.g. when I stop my work and can afford a 30 > minutes ubuntu-fix-break :) And indeed usually things go well! Otherwise I > wouldn't be using ubuntu at all. > > [...] >> >> Clear evidence will be obtained only when studies will be published. >> All >> of this **** is based on a study which has not been published. I do not >> work in usability and do not have the resources to do a test, but if >> you >> find any, and you need some cooperation, I'll be glad to help designing >> some experiments. >> >> >> This sounds great. We seem to have enough scientists here to run a small >> University, and still don't manage to get our act together and try some >> actual usability studies. I'm not an expert either, but we surely can learn. >> >> > We could use the testing distribution as a testing environment only for > those users who, prompted by a clear question (a popup window maybe :P) when > they install karmic (or karmic+1, I do not think we are in time for k), > decide to participate in usability tests, involving changing the system in > various ways for a week or so and then report feedback in a > number-crunchable way. > > But experts on statistics and usability will be of great help for this to > be actually useful. Clear to everybody I suppose. > > Vincenzo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >
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