Hi Rebecca, I agree with all of Greg's answers below including leaving "dummy" unchanged and replacing the occurrences of "range" with "address block".
Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e...@gmail.com On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 6:19 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimir...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Rebecca, > thank you for your thoughtful proposals helping in improving this document. > Please find my responses to your questions below tagged GIM>>. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 7:48 PM Donald Eastlake <d3e...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Rebecca, >> >> Sorry for the delayed response. >> >> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 12:48 AM Rebecca VanRheenen >> <rvanrhee...@staff.rfc-editor.org> wrote: >> > >> > Hello authors, >> > >> > This is a friendly reminder ... >> > >> > Thank you, >> > RFC Editor/rv >> > >> > > On May 5, 2025, at 3:06 PM, rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org wrote: >> > > >> > > Authors, >> > > >> > > While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as >> > > necessary) the following questions, which are also in the XML file. >> > > >> > > 1) <!-- [rfced] We made the following changes to the document title: 1) >> > > updated >> > > "Multi-Point" to "Multipoint" and 2) updated "Label Switched Path (LSP)" >> > > to "Label Switched Paths (LSPs)" (plural). Let us know any concerns. >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for Multipoint Networks over >> > > Point-to-Multi-Point MPLS Label Switched Path (LSP) >> > > >> > > Current: >> > > Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for Multipoint Networks over >> > > Point-to-Multipoint MPLS Label Switched Paths (LSPs) >> > > --> >> >> OK. > > GIM>> Agree with the updated version >> >> >> > > 2) <!-- [rfced] Please review the following sentences in the abstract and >> > > introduction to ensure that they align with the document title and the >> > > rest of the document. These similar sentences mention SR P2MP policies >> > > with an SR-MPLS data plane, which are not mentioned in the document >> > > title. In addition, we only see SR and SR-MPLS mentioned in one sentence >> > > in Section 4.1 (and in the Terminology section). Are any updates needed? >> > > >> > > Document Title: >> > > Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for Multipoint Networks over >> > > Point-to-Multipoint MPLS Label Switched Paths (LSPs) >> >> I think that title is OK. > > GIM>> We didn't elaborate on SR-MPLS because there are no differences between > it and IP/MPLS in the applicability of p2mp BFD. The MPLS and SPRING WGs > acknowledged that. Thus, I believe that there's no need to add any > informational text in this regard. >> >> >> > > Abstract: >> > > This document describes procedures for using Bidirectional Forwarding >> > > Detection (BFD) for multipoint networks to detect data plane failures >> > > in MPLS point-to-multipoint Label Switched Paths (LSPs) and Segment >> > > Routing (SR) point-to-multipoint policies with an SR over MPLS (SR- >> > > MPLS) data plane. >> > > >> > > Introduction: >> > > This document describes procedures for using such modes of the BFD >> > > protocol to detect data plane failures in Multiprotocol Label >> > > Switching (MPLS) point-to-multipoint (p2mp) Label Switched Paths >> > > (LSPs) and Segment Routing (SR) point-to-multipoint policies with an >> > > SR over MPLS (SR-MPLS) data plane. >> > > --> >> > > >> > > >> > > 3) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We updated "and recommends...and discourages" to >> > > "by >> > > recommending...and discouraging" (we also made a similar change in the >> > > introduction). Please review and let us know any concerns. >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > Furthermore, this document also updates RFC 8562 and recommends the >> > > use of an IPv6 address from the Dummy IPv6 range TBA2/64 >> > > (Section 7.1) and discourages the use of an IPv4 loopback address >> > > mapped to IPv6. >> > > >> > > Updated: >> > > Furthermore, this document updates RFC 8562 by recommending the >> > > use of an IPv6 address from the Dummy IPv6 Prefix range 100:0:0:1::/64 >> > > and discouraging the use of an IPv4 loopback address >> > > mapped to IPv6. >> > > --> >> >> OK. > > GIM>> I agree with the proposed update; thank you >> >> >> > > 4) <!-- [rfced] How may we update this sentence to improve readability? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > It also describes the applicability of LSP Ping, as in-band, and the >> > > control plane, as out-band, solutions to bootstrap a BFD session. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > This document also describes the applicability of LSP Ping (as an >> > > in-band >> > > solution) and the control plane (as an out-of-band solution) to >> > > bootstrap >> > > a BFD session. >> > > --> >> >> I think your rewording is good. > > GIM>> I concur with Donald. >> >> >> > > 5) <!-- [rfced] Please review the following sentences. The first >> > > sentence (from >> > > the abstract) mentions both in-band and out-of-band solutions, but the >> > > sentence (from the introduction) only mentions out-of-band >> > > solutions. Should these be aligned? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > It also describes the applicability of LSP Ping, as in-band, and the >> > > control plane, as out-band, solutions to bootstrap a BFD session. >> > > ... >> > > The document also describes the applicability of out-band solutions >> > > to bootstrap a BFD session in this environment. >> > > --> >> >> Seems like a good idea to add a few words to the introduction sentence >> so >> >> The document also describes the applicability of LSP Ping and >> out-band solutions to bootstrap a BFD session in this environment > > GIM>> I agree with your suggestion adding reference to the use of LSP Ping as > in-band bootstrapping mechanism. It could be helpful to a reader if the > update also notes that LSP Ping serves as an in-band mechanism. Perhaps > update can be as follows: > NEW TEXT: > The document also describes the applicability of LSP Ping, as in-band, and > out-band solutions to bootstrap a BFD session in this environment >> >> >> > > 6) <!-- [rfced] Please review "to select destination IPv6 addresses for" >> > > here. Would updating as follows make this text more clear? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > Hence, IANA is requested >> > > to allocate TBA2/64 as a new Dummy IPv6 Prefix (Section 7.1) to >> > > select destination IPv6 addresses for IP/UDP encapsulation of >> > > management, control, and OAM packets. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > Hence, IANA has >> > > allocated 100:0:0:1::/64 as a new Dummy IPv6 Prefix (Section 7.1) for >> > > destination IPv6 addresses used for IP/UDP encapsulation of >> > > management, control, and Operations, Administration, and Maintenance >> > > (OAM) packets. > > GIM>> I agree with that update and expansion of the OAM acronym on the first > use. >> >> > > --> >> >> I really don't like that "a, b, and c, d, and e" construct. It's >> confusing. Regardless of whatever the general rule is about spelling >> out acronyms on first occurrence and then giving the acronym in >> parenthesis, this would read better as below. Otherwise fine. >> >> management, control, and OAM (Operations, Administration, and >> Maintenance) packets. >> >> > > 7) <!-- [rfced] We see both of the following in Section 1: >> > > >> > > address::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 >> > > ::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 >> > > >> > > Should "address::ffff:127.0.0.1/128" be updated as follows? >> > > >> > > Current: >> > > Historically, an IPv6-mapped IPv4 loopback range >> > > address::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 was mandated, although functionally, an >> > > IPv6 address from that range is not analogous to its IPv4 >> > > counterpart. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > Historically, an address in the IPv6-mapped IPv4 loopback range >> > > ::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 was mandated, although functionally, an >> > > IPv6 address from that range is not analogous to its IPv4 >> > > counterpart. >> >> > > --> >> >> I think that is a good change. > > GIM>> I agree, thank you >> >> >> > > 8) <!-- [rfced] To improve readability, we split this long sentence into >> > > two >> > > sentences. Would it be helpful to further update to use >> > > "::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 range" instead of "IPv6-mapped IPv4 loopback range >> > > address" in the second sentence? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > Thus, this >> > > document also updates [RFC8562] and recommends the use of an IPv6 >> > > address from the Dummy IPv6 Prefix range TBA2/64 (Section 7.1) while >> > > acknowledging that an address from ::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 range might >> > > be used by existing implementations, discourages the use of the >> > > IPv6-mapped IPv4 loopback range address. >> > > >> > > Current: >> > > Thus, this >> > > document updates [RFC8562] by recommending the use of an IPv6 address >> > > from the Dummy IPv6 Prefix range 100:0:0:1::/64 (Section 7.1) while >> > > acknowledging that an address from the ::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 range >> > > might be used by existing implementations. This document discourages >> > > the use of an address in the IPv6-mapped IPv4 loopback range. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > Thus, this >> > > document updates [RFC8562] by recommending the use of an IPv6 address >> > > from the Dummy IPv6 Prefix range 100:0:0:1::/64 (Section 7.1) while >> > > acknowledging that an address from the ::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 range >> > > might be used by existing implementations. This document discourages >> > > the use of an address from the ::ffff:127.0.0.1/128 range. >> > > --> >> >> I think your current text is best. > > GIM>> I think that we can keep the current version of the text. >> >> >> > > 9) <!-- [rfced] We do not see "demultiplex" in Section 3.1. Please >> > > review and let >> > > us know if any updates are needed. >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > If the BFD Control packet is encapsulated in IP/UDP, then >> > > the source IP address MUST be used to demultiplex the received BFD >> > > Control packet as described in Section 3.1. >> > > --> >> >> I do not think Section 3.1 needs any further change. It is about >> encapsulation while demultiplexing is about handling on receipt. > > GIM>> I agree with Donald that there is no apparent need to update Section > 3.1 of this draft. Instead, we should update the reference to point to > Section 5.7 of RFC 8562. Hence, the text reads as follows: > NEW TEXT: > If the BFD Control packet is encapsulated in IP/UDP, then > the source IP address MUST be used to demultiplex the received BFD > Control packet as described in Section 5.7 of [RFC8562]. >> >> >> > > 10) <!-- [rfced] Should the introductory text include the first part of >> > > the >> > > indented text here? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > Thus, this >> > > specification further clarifies that: >> > > >> > > if multiple alternative paths for the given p2mp LSP Forwarding >> > > Equivalence Class (FEC) exist, the MultipointHead SHOULD use the >> > > Entropy Label [RFC6790] used for LSP Ping [RFC8029] to exercise >> > > those particular alternative paths; >> > > >> > > or the MultipointHead MAY use the UDP port number to possibly >> > > exercise those particular alternate paths. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > This >> > > specification further clarifies the following if multiple alternative >> > > paths >> > > for the given P2MP LSP Forwarding Equivalence Class (FEC) exist: >> > > >> > > * The MultipointHead SHOULD use the Entropy Label [RFC6790] used for >> > > LSP >> > > Ping [RFC8029] to exercise those particular alternative paths; or >> > > >> > > * The MultipointHead MAY use the UDP port number to possibly exercise >> > > those >> > > particular alternate paths. >> > > --> >> >> I don't think any material needs to be added to the Introduction. > > GIM>> I think that the update improves readability. I support the proposed > version. >> >> >> > > 11) <!-- [rfced] The following sentences appear twice in Section 3.2 (as >> > > the >> > > second paragraph and in the third paragraph). Which should be removed? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > If a BFD Control packet in PW-ACH encapsulation (without IP/UDP >> > > Headers) is to be used in ACH, an implementation would not be able to >> > > verify the identity of the MultipointHead and, as a result, will not >> > > properly demultiplex BFD packets. Hence, a new channel type value is >> > > needed. >> > > --> >> >> I think the 2nd paragraph should be deleted. > > GIM>> I agree with removing the second paragraph. >> >> >> > > 12) <!-- [rfced] Would it be helpful to clarify "the top three >> > > four-octet words" >> > > here? Will readers understand what is defined in RFC 5586? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > * the top three four-octet words as defined in [RFC5586]; >> > > --> >> >> I think it is OK as is. > > GIM>> I agree with Donald, this terminology is accepted in computing. >> >> >> > > 13) <!-- [rfced] We do not see mention of "BFD Control Message" in >> > > [RFC5880]. >> > > Please review. >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > * the BFD Control Message field is as defined in [RFC5880]; >> > > --> >> >> I believe the problem is that RFC 5880 refers to it as a BFD Control >> Packet rather than a BFD Control Message. Since it isn't really >> referring to the entire packet on the wire, it seems to me that >> Message is more correct. >> >> Perhaps the explanation below the figure should be: >> >> * The BFD Control Message field is as defined in [RFC5880] where it >> is referred to as the BFD Control Packet. > > GIM>> A very good question, thank you. As Donald noted, "BFD Control packet" > and "BFD Control message" are used interchangeably in documents and > discussions. One solution could be to add a note to that in the Terminology > section or replace all four occurrences of "BFD Control message" with "BFD > Control packet". I can live with any solution, but the latter might be easier > to apply. WDYT? >> >> >> > > 14) <!-- [rfced] Should the two instances of "Target FEC TLV" here be >> > > "Target FEC >> > > Stack TLV"? We see "Target FEC Stack TLV" in RFC 6425. >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > LSP Ping, as defined in [RFC6425], MAY be used to bootstrap >> > > MultipointTail. If LSP Ping is used, it MUST include the Target FEC >> > > TLV and the BFD Discriminator TLV defined in [RFC5884]. For the case >> > > of p2mp MPLS LSP, the Target FEC TLV MUST use sub-TLVs defined in >> > > Section 3.1 [RFC6425]. >> > > --> >> >> I believe "Target FEC TLV" is just short for "Target FEC Stack TLV" >> which is specified in RFC 8029 which is already a Normative >> reference. I suggest: >> >> LSP Ping, as defined in [RFC6425], MAY be used to bootstrap >> MultipointTail. If LSP Ping is used, it MUST include the Target FEC >> Stack TLV [RFC8029] and the BFD Discriminator TLV [RFC5884]. For >> the case of p2mp MPLS LSP, the Target FEC Stack TLV MUST use >> sub-TLVs defined in Section 3.1 [RFC6425]. > > GIM>> I agree with the text proposed by Donald. >> >> >> > > 15) <!-- [rfced] May we update the introductory text to use "MUST" and >> > > remove >> > > "MUST" from each bullet? Or do you prefer the current? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > A MultipointTail that receives an LSP Ping that includes the BFD >> > > Discriminator TLV: >> > > >> > > * MUST validate the LSP Ping; >> > > >> > > * MUST associate the received BFD Discriminator value with the p2mp >> > > LSP; >> > > >> > > * MUST create a p2mp BFD session and set bfd.SessionType = >> > > MultipointTail as described in [RFC8562]; >> > > >> > > * MUST use the source IP address of LSP Ping, the value of BFD >> > > Discriminator from the BFD Discriminator TLV, and the identity of >> > > the p2mp LSP to properly demultiplex BFD sessions. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > A MultipointTail that receives an LSP Ping that includes the BFD >> > > Discriminator TLV MUST do the following: >> > > >> > > * validate the LSP Ping; >> > > >> > > * associate the received BFD Discriminator value with the P2MP >> > > LSP; >> > > >> > > * create a P2MP BFD session and set bfd.SessionType = >> > > MultipointTail as described in [RFC8562]; and >> > > >> > > * use the source IP address of the LSP Ping, the value of BFD >> > > Discriminator from the BFD Discriminator TLV, and the identity of >> > > the P2MP LSP to properly demultiplex BFD sessions. >> > > --> >> >> OK with your change. > > GIM>> I concur with Donald and support the updated text. >> >> >> > > 16) <!-- [rfced] The second bulleted list in Section 5 is prefaced with >> > > the >> > > following text. However, it looks like only the first four bullets detail >> > > settings. Should the last two bullets be regular paragraphs rather than >> > > part of the list? Or should this introductory text be updated? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > Upon detecting the failure of the p2mp MPLS LSP, an egress LSR sends >> > > BFD Control packet with the following settings: >> > > --> >> >> I think the last two bullet items can be regular paragraphs. > > GIM>> I agree with your proposal, it improves the readability. >> >> >> > > 17) <!-- [rfced] What does "it" refer to here? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > * these BFD Control packets are transmitted at the rate of one per >> > > second until either it receives a control packet valid for this >> > > BFD session with the Final (F) bit set from the ingress LSR or the >> > > defect condition clears. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > * These BFD Control packets are transmitted at the rate of one per >> > > second until either 1) the egress LSA receives a control packet >> > > from the ingress LSR >> > > that is valid for this BFD session and has the Final (F) bit set or >> > > 2) the >> > > defect condition clears. >> > > --> >> >> I agree with your suggested change. > > GIM>> I concur with Donald and agree with the proposed update. >> >> >> > > 18) <!-- [rfced] Please clarify "defined above" here. Is the intent "as >> > > defined >> > > above" (with "as"), "with the settings described above", or something >> > > else? >> > > >> > > Original: >> > > However, to improve the likelihood of >> > > notifying the ingress LSR of the failure of the p2mp MPLS LSP, the >> > > egress LSR SHOULD initially transmit three BFD Control packets >> > > defined above in short succession. >> > > >> > > Perhaps: >> > > However, to improve the likelihood of >> > > notifying the ingress LSR of the failure of the p2mp MPLS LSP, the >> > > egress LSR SHOULD initially transmit three BFD Control packets >> > > (as defined above) in short succession. >> > > --> >> >> OK with your change. > > GIM>> Thank you for the proposed update, I agree with you. >> >> >> > > 19) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We updated Table 2 to <dl> as the table was too >> > > wide for >> > > the txt output. Note that <dl> was used in other RFCs that have made >> > > allocations in the "IANA IPv6 Special-Purpose Address Registry" (e.g., >> > > RFCs 9637, 9602, and 9374). >> > > --> >> >> OK. > > GIM>> Thank you, agreed. >> >> >> > > 20) <!-- [rfced] An informative reference is listed for the "IANA IPv6 >> > > Special >> > > Purpose Address Registry" in Section 7.1. Would you like to also add an >> > > informative reference for the "MPLS Generalized Associated Channel >> > > (G-ACh) Types" registry in Section 7.2? >> > > --> >> >> I think that is a good idea. > > GIM>> Great suggestion, thanks. >> >> >> > > 21) <!-- [rfced] Terminology >> > > >> > > a) We see the following forms used in this document. Should "P2MP" or >> > > "MPLS" >> > > come first in this phrase? >> > > >> > > p2mp MPLS LSP >> > > MPLS p2mp LSP >> > > Point-to-Multipoint MPLS Label Switched Path (LSP) >> > > MPLS point-to-multipoint Label Switched Paths (LSPs) >> >> I believe P2MP or Point-to-Multipoint should come first. > > GIM>> I agree with Donald. >> >> >> > > b) Please review the instances of "echo" in the document and let us know >> > > if >> > > they should be capitalized or lowercased. >> > > >> > > MPLS echo reply >> > > MPLS echo request >> > > LSP Ping Echo request message >> >> Generally, echo should be the same case as "reply' or "request", that >> is, in the above cases, lower case. > > GIM>> Lowercase is consistent with RFC 8029: > It defines a probe message called an "MPLS > echo request" and a response message called an "MPLS echo reply" for > returning the result of the probe. >> >> >> > > c) We have updated "out-band" to "out-of-band" (two instances). Let us >> > > know any >> > > objections. >> >> That seems good. > > GIM>> I agree with the update. >> >> >> > > d) Would either of the following read more clearly? Or is the current >> > > okay? >> > > >> > > Current: >> > > the Dummy IPv6 Prefix range 100:0:0:1::/64 >> > > >> > > Perhaps ("address block" instead of "range"): >> > > the Dummy IPv6 Prefix address block 100:0:0:1::/64 >> > > >> > > Or ("address block" and parentheses): >> > > the Dummy IPv6 Prefix address block (100:0:0:1::/64) >> >> I don't think parenthesis are needed but "address block" is good. > > GIM>> As Donald said, I support the first option. >> >> >> > > --> >> > >> > > 22) <!-- [rfced] Abbreviations >> > > >> > > a) We updated "p2mp" (lowercase) to "P2MP" (caps). The capitalized form >> > > is much >> > > more common in published RFCs, including in RFCs 9026 and 6425, which are >> > > normatively referenced by this document. >> >> OK. > > GIM>>> Accepted >> >> >> > > b) FYI - We have added expansions for the following abbreviations >> > > per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 ("RFC Style Guide"). Please review each >> > > expansion in the document carefully to ensure correctness. >> > > >> > > Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) >> > > Pseudowire (PW) >> >> OK. > > GIM>> Agree >> >> >> > > --> >> > > >> > > 23) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the >> > > online >> > > Style Guide >> > > <https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/#inclusive_language> >> > > and let us know if any changes are needed. Updates of this nature >> > > typically >> > > result in more precise language, which is helpful for readers. >> > > >> > > For example, please consider whether the following should be updated: >> > > >> > > Dummy >> >> I understand the problems with Dummy but it is hard to find another >> word with the right connotations. The best I can do is suggest >> replacing Dummy with Marker. > > GIM>> IANA registries of Special addresses already list address blocks that > include Dummy in the title. IESG agreed to that name. >> >> >> > > --> >> > > >> > > Thank you. >> > > RFC Editor/rv >> > > >> > > On May 5, 2025, at 3:01 PM, rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org wrote: >> > > >> > > *****IMPORTANT***** >> > > >> > > Updated 2025/05/05 >> > > >> > > RFC Author(s): >> > > -------------- >> > > >> > > Instructions for Completing AUTH48 >> > > >> > > Your document has now entered AUTH48. Once it has been reviewed and >> > > approved by you and all coauthors, it will be published as an RFC. >> > > If an author is no longer available, there are several remedies >> > > available as listed in the FAQ (https://www.rfc-editor.org/faq/). >> > > >> > > You and you coauthors are responsible for engaging other parties >> > > (e.g., Contributors or Working Group) as necessary before providing >> > > your approval. >> > > >> > > Planning your review >> > > --------------------- >> > > >> > > Please review the following aspects of your document: >> > > >> > > * RFC Editor questions >> >> See above. >> >> Thanks, >> Donald >> =============================== >> Donald E. 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