On 7/24/05 5:47 PM India Time, _surya_ wrote: > --- In [email protected], V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I just have one thing to say, for the trees you are not able to see > the forest. You are nittypicking bcoz you feel even his pre-modern > and post-modern era have the same arrangements or the same style.
I do not know the technical details of music. I have no training in any kind of music. I can't understand the implication of every individual instrument or loop or whatever. I go by the overall feeling of calm, or happiness, or enthusiam, etc. that is generated after hearing a song. > We > all know it by a diff name and that is ARRish. Its not the > orchestraton or the instruments mind you, it is his genious to be > able to understand the situation (and for the last few years era) > and come of with tunes What he tries to do as far as I get it, he > comes up with his own interpretation of the same (and this is where > his research comes, he might listen and find what type of tunes were > created, what instruments he used) Exactly. Every MD eventually creates a music for an era depending of his interpretation or a rough "feel" about what sounds could have been in use in those era. Older MDs have given several detailed interviews in which they had elaborated how they found which instruments were in use during some earlier era, and made it a point to use only those instruments and not use those other instruments which were not in that era at that place. Then those MD tried to get a sound of the then current times using only those instruments they were using. I would like to know what ARR says about his research to find which instruments were in use in 1941 or in 1856. Members of this group are learned enough to notice by listening to ARR's music and can tell us which of the 2005 instruments they hear being used in Rising or in Bose music. A member of the group had written that Daud and Dil Hi Dil Mein loops are used in Rising. Now daud and DHDM are both decidedly current movies. Doesn't that itself tell that ARR feels that he can use loops indicating current music in period music? By using such things, ARR manages to get ARR-ish feel to his songs. Listeners notice and remember just this feel and forget about period elements of the songs. > and while doing it he also leaves > his indelible Rahman stamp on it and that is where u seem to have > disconnect. You had asked in one of your earlier emails, you would > like to know more about his research, then probably u should read > his interviews pre and post lagaan as to how he created Lagaan's > sound. please do send some links where ARR talks about the texhnical part of his music, period or non-period. > I personally feel that "ek tuu hii bharosa" of pukar has a > more "old" feel than "o palanhaare" of lagaan. I feel that > songs should really havc been exchanged in these films. > > And that again brings me back to the understanding of > "period" sounds that ARR has. > =======Rawat======= > > ------------------ > Maybe he would have done that if Lagaan was conceptualized before > Pukar. Dont u think u r stretching it a little too far by saying > that such and such song would have been much better and this other > film. That is now how any music dir works I guess. Coming up with > tunes where he can procrastinate the type of situations and work he > might have and then going ahead and reserving certain of his tunes > just for them. Interestingly, I have heard the original Oh Bosnia that feels quite modern. But, "ek tuu hii bharosa" that is based on that song sounds quite "old" to me. > But, there is another aspect of it. Both mahive and Jogiya > are very sweet and voices were very fresh. The overall feel > of these two songs is same as saathiyaa's "chupke se" and > meenaxi's "ra.ng hai". So, there disappears the "period" feel. > =======Rawat======= > > See thats exactly the problem I was talking about earlier. The ARR > feel. The underlying thread in Mahive and Jogiya and Rang Hai is the > Rahmanisque feel. People so used to casting that they exhibit > certain restraint when presented with an alternative perspective. > Its not people's fault and neither is it Rahman's. > > I definitely don't wan't Rahman to inhibit his creative self just > bcoz he might be able to reach the masses. This thread started with "period" part of ARR's music, not with popularity of songs. > There are many other > music dir's who can do that. I am sure Gowriker, Benegal, Mehta, > Aamir come to ARR for a certain reason (inspite of some failures of > some of this period films) and I am sure they do it for the exact > same reason. But, ARR has said no to period movies. Why would Gowriker, Benegal, Mehta, Aamir come to him if they make another period movie? > Ashutosh did defy a lot of predefined notions in Lagaan. I am sure > you would agree that Lagaan didn;t have all the elements of a pre > independence movie. I absolutely agree with you. Lagaan was a current film, which was just put in pre-independence era for effect so that a mere cricket match can be equated with a fight for freedom. > But he didn't sacrifice his creativity and went > ahead and challegened a lot of set norms (not sure who set them but > I guess mass momentum gathered and lived in people's memory for long > to become norm). > > Birds of the same feather flock together and hence the association. yes. gowarikar could do it very effectively. An earlier parallel could be "Naya Daur" of BR Chopra (Yash Chopra's brother) starring Dilip Kumar and Vyjayantimala, in which a mere race between bus and tongaa was successfully shown as a automation vs manual debate, something that was parallel to Gandhi's swadesii andolan when he propmted masses to burn foreign clothes to counter the machinised clothes of british mills so that indian handloom workers can earn a living. > I have seen you around ever since I joined this group in 2000. I am > sure you have seen this disappointment expressed for all his albums > (Lagaa, Taal, Zubeeida, Saathiyaa ....). That should not be news to > you. The nay-sayers of Lagaan, Taal, Zubaidaa, sathiya were during the starting days and they said "yeah" after a few days. The disappointments with Rising are much more numerous and more pointed. I also somehow feel that "nay-sayers" of rising are not going to change their views after repeated hearing of rising. It is time that notice needs to be taken of these disappointments. > That is your interpretation of how it should sound. My this interpretation is based on a theory that I had written in detail in the mail you are replying to. This type of discussions are required among fans and among ARR's inner circle to find out what people consider as characteristic traits of music of some era, and why. That is the research. Then, ARR should create those sounds. > Maybe also > Naushad's the way you have presented it. I am not too sure whether > ARR should agree to it. of course not. But do you thing whether I and all general fans are entitled to know what ARR "thinks" are the characteristic traits of music of some era, and why. That is what we understand by the term reasearch. When ARR says that he had "researched", what exactly did he research, and what did he find? > I am sure he would capture these thoughts > during his research for Akbar Jodha, comprehend them. Amen. but if his previous "period" albums are any indication, I even doubt that he does any research at all. > Confused me again. So you mean to say Benegal was able to get the > old feel using Ghoomparani, ekla chalo re and desh ki mitti. if they could, wherever they could. > I think in this Rukhi-Sukhi context Shankar's brilliance was > presenting the underlying facet of ARR's music which was missed > earlier by a certian sect of people. That is where visuals add to the beauty of music. But it can't be generalised to the "period"-ness of the visuals and audio. Shankar's and Mani's visuals were their interpretation of "current" dance-steps etc. And they could find a good support from ARR's music because ARR's music is "current". If Shankar or Mani make a period film, what visuals they will use is not known. > As a parting note, FYI MEA didn't even an award during its time. Its > was hailed as a masterpiece during its later years. I am sure the > same would happen to a lot of ARR scores. in 1960, Naushad did not have means of communication that ARR has today. He can make use of these means to get in touch with people to get feedback on his music, and then improve his future compositions. One can say that "he is getting feedback" etc. But this is one of the biggest and one of the most authentic group of ARR fans. I can tell you that ARR is quite well aware of this group. But how he uses the discussions, comments aired in this group is not known to me and several members of this group. People in this group do not know how to communicate with ARR. He has never appeared in any chat with the members of this group, nor has he ever written any personal mail to this group. He has never asked any question, query, poll to the member of this group. Hence I really wonder whether ARR is taking any feedback at all, and if yes, from whom and how? > > Thanks for your time. > > Surya -- Rawat This August, Discover the Birth of Your Independence and The Magic of A.R.Rahman's Music in Mangal Pandey - The Rising http://www.risingthefilm.com http://www.mangalpandeythefilm.com Music released: Jul 14, 2005 Movie releases: Aug 12, 2005 Explore, Experience, Enjoy A.R.Rahman - The Man, The Music, The Magic. Only at arrahmanfans - The definitive A.R.Rahman e-community. 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