We’ve been working on what amounts to an editorial change for 15 months. Someone should just make a decision.
HTH, -M< On Fri, Aug 22, 2025 at 10:31 Kat Hunter <[email protected]> wrote: > There were a lot of questions during our meeting from the advisory council > and at the June NANOG from members that received v6 space and did not use > the formula at all when requesting IP space. They followed the text > requirements. (as the formula was off anyway) Staff has stated they use the > text only. Is the formula necessary? I'd be curious what the community > thinks given it isn't being used. Could we just eliminate the formula? > > Kat Hunter > AC Chair > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2025 at 5:03 AM Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I don’t think the formula is particularly difficult to understand once it >> is corrected, and I’d argue that change could go via the editorial process >> since it amounts to correcting a typo. Admittedly it’s a mathematical typo, >> but it’s an obvious error (confirmed by the author even) with an obvious >> correction. >> >> Owen >> >> >> > On Aug 21, 2025, at 14:38, William Herrin <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Folks, >> > >> > I have three followup questions for you on the proposal to correct the >> > formula used to determine the maximum qualification for ISP IPv6 >> > addresses. >> > >> >> From the current PPML discussion, it sounds like folks agree that the >> > revised formula correctly aligns with the text. Does anyone disagree? >> > >> > There's a misalignment between the terms "provider allocation unit" in >> > NRPM 6.5.2.1c and "provider assignment unit" in 2.15 and 2.16. As far >> > as I can tell, these are the only places in the NRPM that either term >> > is used. One of these should be changed to match the other so that >> > folks trying to understand 6.5.2.1.c can actually find the term's >> > definition. Does anyone have a preference for which? >> > >> > Now the big question: if we don't abandon it for non-interest, there >> > are probably three ways we can proceed with this proposal: >> > >> > 1. Change the formula as proposed. >> > >> > 2. Drop the formula and rely on the now-identical text. >> > >> > 3. Drop the formula and rewrite the text for clarity, without changing >> > the formula the text describes. >> > >> > Option 1 makes the minimum change to the policy, but leaves behind a >> > formula that may be difficult to understand. >> > >> > Option 3 theoretically leaves IPv6 allocation and the NRPM in more >> > comprehensible state, but it would require the largest change to the >> > policy text and carries a risk of unintentionally changing what the >> > policy calls for. >> > >> > What are your thoughts on the best choice here? >> > >> > Regards, >> > Bill Herrin >> > >> > >> >> On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 2:53 PM William Herrin <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2025 at 11:34 AM ARIN <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Draft Policy ARIN-2025-6: Fix formula in 6.5.2.1c >> >>> >> >>> Problem Statement: >> >>> >> >>> Sections 6.5.2.1 explains the initial IPv6 ISP/LIR allocation in a >> way that is difficult to follow and the formula in section (c) does not >> match the remainder of the text. >> >>> >> >>> Policy Statement: >> >>> >> >>> In 6.5.2.1c, replace: >> >>> >> >>> "This calculation can be summarized as /N where N = P-(X+Y) and P is >> the organization’s Provider Allocation Unit X is a multiple of 4 greater >> than 4/3*serving sites and Y is a multiple of 4 greater than 4/3*end sites >> served by largest serving site." >> >>> >> >>> with: >> >>> >> >>> "This calculation can be summarized as /N where N = P-(X+Y) and P is >> the organization’s Provider Allocation Unit, X is a multiple of 4 greater >> than 4/3*log_2(serving sites) and Y is a multiple of 4 greater than >> 4/3*log_2(end sites served by largest serving site). >> >> >> >> >> >> FYI, I'm the primary Advisory Council shepherd for this draft policy. >> >> Here's some explanation: >> >> >> >> Section 6.5.2.1c holds the criteria for the _maximum_ initial IPv6 >> >> allocation for ISPs. They qualify for the number of IPv6 addresses >> >> described here and may request that much or a smaller block. The >> >> section is frankly hard to read. Here's what that part of the NRPM >> >> currently says: >> >> >> >> "c. The maximum allowable allocation shall be the smallest >> >> nibble-boundary aligned block that can provide an equally sized >> >> nibble-boundary aligned block to each of the requesters serving sites >> >> large enough to satisfy the needs of the requesters largest single >> >> serving site using no more than 75% of the available addresses. >> >> This calculation can be summarized as /N where N = P-(X+Y) and P is >> >> the organization’s Provider Allocation Unit X is a multiple of 4 >> >> greater than 4/3*serving sites and Y is a multiple of 4 greater than >> >> 4/3*end sites served by largest serving site. >> >> >> >> d. For purposes of the calculation in (c), an end site which can >> >> justify more than a /48 under the end-user assignment criteria in >> >> 6.5.8 shall count as the appropriate number of /48s that would be >> >> assigned under that policy. >> >> >> >> e. For purposes of the calculation in (c), an LIR which has >> >> subordinate LIRs shall make such reallocations according to the same >> >> policies and criteria as ARIN. In such a case, the prefixes necessary >> >> for such a reallocation should be treated as fully utilized in >> >> determining the block sizing for the parent LIR. LIRs which do not >> >> receive resources directly from ARIN will not be able to make such >> >> reallocations to subordinate LIRs and subordinate LIRs which need more >> >> than a /32 shall apply directly to ARIN." >> >> >> >> >> >> Here's how ARIN staff explained the current implementation of NRPM >> 6.5.2.1c: >> >> >> >> "ARIN staff implements 6.5.2.1.c based on the text. The summarized >> >> formula is overly complex and inaccurate for your typical IPv6 >> >> requestor. The text alone is more easily understood by customers and >> >> implemented by ARIN staff. >> >> >> >> ARIN staff calculates Initial allocation sizes by verifying how many >> >> serving sites the ISP has in the ARIN region, and how many customers >> >> are served at the largest serving site. ARIN assumes each customer >> >> will receive a /48 for simplicity and to promote IPv6 transition. >> >> >> >> Once the sites and customers are provided by the requestor, ARIN staff >> >> confirms what size is justified at the largest serving site based on >> >> the 75% rule. That size is applied to all sites, then checked against >> >> the 75% rule for the overall allocation justified by the ISP. The ISP >> >> can opt to request a smaller size. They are not required to request >> >> the largest justified size, though it is recommended to avoid future >> >> renumbering. >> >> >> >> For example: >> >> An ISP has 7 sites and 30,000 customers at the largest site. >> >> >> >> ARIN assumes each of the 30,000 customers receives a /48. There are >> >> only 4,096 /48s in a /36, so a /36 is too small. The next >> >> nibble-boundary aligned subnet is a /32 which has 65,536 /48s. 30,000 >> >> is less than 75% of 65,536, so the ISP’s largest serving site >> >> justifies a /32. >> >> >> >> Thus, each of the 7 sites receives a /32. The next nibble-boundary >> >> after /32 is a /28. There are 16 /32s in a /28. 7 /32s of the total 16 >> >> /32s is less than 75%, so the organization justifies a total >> >> allocation of a /28. 7 /32s for immediate allocation to each of their >> >> 7 sites and 9 additional /32s for future growth. >> >> >> >> Example 2: >> >> >> >> Building off the previous example, if the largest serving site had >> >> 60,000 customers, then a /32 would be too small. 60,000 is greater >> >> than 75% of the available 65,536 /48s in a /32. The next >> >> nibble-boundary aligned subnet is a /28, so the largest serving site >> >> justifies a /28. Thus, each of the 7 sites receives a /28, so the >> >> organization justifies a /24." >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Bill Herrin >> >> >> >> -- >> >> William Herrin >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://bill.herrin.us/ >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > William Herrin >> > [email protected] >> > https://bill.herrin.us/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ARIN-PPML >> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >
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