Paul - Let’s start over here –
1. You (and your son) do not need to worry about revocation of your existing blocks due to expressing views on the mailing list – everyone is allowed to express their views so long as they stay within the Acceptable Use Policy (basically be on good behavior - https://www.arin.net/participate/community/mailing_lists/aup/) 2. You reference “routing” and "root servers" as things that ARIN controls - that’s really not the case – we simply operate a registry of IP address blocks. 3. I have enormous respect for your right to be an Old Angry Man (and personally aspire to get to that status myself someday :-) 4. ARIN operates a registry database that was directed to be transferred to ARIN by the US Government/NSF, and in the process of our formation ARIN agreed to operate it according to policies set by this community that are developed via an open and transparent process. 5. To the extent that you want to chat about any of the above, feel free to reach out to me at any time: my mobile number is +1 617 512 8095. (It might be possible to walk through some of this orally in a more efficient manner.) Thanks and best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers On 25 Jul 2022, at 4:08 PM, Paul E McNary via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> wrote: ARIN controls the root servers for this region do they not. Without the root servers nothing gets routed. That is a part of the number resources ARIN made commitments to maintain for all resources that had been allocated. And yes I was well alive before Al Gore invented the Internet. :-) ________________________________ From: "pmcnary" <pmcn...@cameron.net<mailto:pmcn...@cameron.net>> To: "pmcnary" <pmcn...@cameron.net<mailto:pmcn...@cameron.net>> Cc: "Matthew Petach" <mpet...@netflight.com<mailto:mpet...@netflight.com>>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 3:05:35 PM Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies? John My Son is sitting here telling me to Shut the F*** up before you revoke our IP Number resources. So since I am semi-retired, I should do as he says Just an OLD ANGRY MAN. ________________________________ From: "pmcnary" <pmcn...@cameron.net<mailto:pmcn...@cameron.net>> To: "pmcnary" <pmcn...@cameron.net<mailto:pmcn...@cameron.net>> Cc: "Matthew Petach" <mpet...@netflight.com<mailto:mpet...@netflight.com>>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 3:02:56 PM Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies? John you have repeatably told me I would risk revocation if I obtained a legacy IP block and tried to clean up the registration. You have now changed you mind and I would no longer have to worry if I obtained a legacy IP block from a friend? I here you speaking out of both sides of your mouth. ________________________________ From: "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> To: "Matthew Petach" <mpet...@netflight.com<mailto:mpet...@netflight.com>> Cc: "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 2:58:21 PM Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies? I think we are talking about number resources here not the individual numbers. Predecessor entities (pre ARIN) made commitments for the "Number Resources" that were allocated. ARIN assumed those responsibilities and commitments and agreed not to alter them. ie. continue to route "all" number resources that had been previously assigned by Pre-ARIN entities. ARIN keeps trying to stop honoring or threaten to stop honoring these agreed to commitments they made. ________________________________ From: "Matthew Petach" <mpet...@netflight.com<mailto:mpet...@netflight.com>> To: "pmcnary" <pmcn...@cameron.net<mailto:pmcn...@cameron.net>> Cc: "William Herrin" <b...@herrin.us<mailto:b...@herrin.us>>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 2:46:29 PM Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies? Oy vey. We've had this discussion before. You can't lay a property claim to a number. Google can't "buy" the number googol, and charge people a license fee to use it every time they count that high. I can't "own" the number "pi" and charge everyone who tries to make a circle using it a licensing fee. I don't "own" my telephone number, and can't sue phone spammers for spoofing it when they robocall other people. IP addresses are just binary numbers. That's it. You can't own numbers. All those networks that ran out of RFC 1918 space and were squatting on government blocks? Not guilty of theft, because the addresses aren't property: https://www.arin.net/blog/2015/11/23/to-squat-or-not-to-squat/ I know I've configured number resources in my internal networks that didn't belong to me, and no IP police came busting down my door. What matters isn't the IP number resources, it's the agreement among the community that there will be a coordinated and accepted injection of those number resources into the global routing table. Using someone else's IP space internally doesn't matter one whit. What *does* matter is when you start injecting entries into the global routing table that go against what the database of record says should be there. And that's why John is so explicit that what ARIN is keeping updated is the single source of truth for what the community has agreed belongs in the routing table. But if I configure your number resources internally in my network, good luck finding any judge that will rule that I have somehow stolen your property by configuring a binary number in my network devices. Number resources are just integers, and nobody can lay claim of property ownership on an integer. End of story. Matt On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 12:20 PM Paul E McNary via ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> wrote: That is why I always say John uses "Inside The Beltway" Non-Responsive language. He just stated to me that number resources are probate-able. That means something that has value to the estate or heirs. Normally property. Legacy resources were issued without contract. So contract law is not valid and it would be over 25 years old. So property law should attach. I think I hear John saying that, but I need an interpreter/lawyer for anything John says. You asked him a specific question with a non-responsive answer as I always get from him. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" <b...@herrin.us<mailto:b...@herrin.us>> To: "pmcnary" <pmcn...@cameron.net<mailto:pmcn...@cameron.net>> Cc: "Fernando Frediani" <fhfredi...@gmail.com<mailto:fhfredi...@gmail.com>>, "arin-ppml" <arin-ppml@arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net>> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2022 2:12:39 PM Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Deceased Companies? On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 11:18 AM Paul E McNary <pmcn...@cameron.net<mailto:pmcn...@cameron.net>> wrote: > Then why the threat? Hi Paul, In my opinion? ARIN has a legal house of cards built on the premise that there are no property rights in IP addresses. It's "true" until a court says otherwise so they want to give the court as few reasons as possible to say otherwise. Like any legal threat, the idea is to keep the matter out of court be gaining compliance. Regards, Bill Herrin -- For hire. https://bill.herrin.us/resume/ _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net<mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
_______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
