> On 16 May 2019, at 10:16 am, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Firstly, I'd like to just remind Owen that this was *not* an issue >> that I unilaterally raised. David Farmer expressed the concern. >> and I merely echoed and expanded upon his posting. >> >> If Owen and a majority of others think that the status quo is just fine >> and that it is none of ARIN's business to be concerned with such things, >> then I have a couple of responses: >> >> *) Don't tell me. Tell David Farmer. I'm not the one who brought >> it up. > > Well… Yes and no. However, David and I routinely disagree on any > number of things. We’ve always been able to do it respectfully and > I consider him a good friend and a valued colleague on the AC. > >> *) OK, fine, have it your own way. If an "innocent" gets caught >> and suddenly has no connectivity because his/her/its ISP was >> just hit by a tsunami, then fine. F**k 'em! Let them eat cake! >> As long as it doesn't impact me, then I have no reason to give >> a rat's ass. If everyone else feels that way then I'd be a damn >> fool to feel any different. > > There’s a lot of room between this and “ARIN should be responsible > for DR to cover all the ills that can be loosely connected to address > policy issues.” > >> As regards to the rest of Owen's points... >> >> *) Yes, ICANN is in the enviable position of being able to "turn >> off a miscreant reseller of its main commodity,. domain names, >> with the flick of a switch, as it were, because it has the keys >> to the root zone. And no, ARIN does not control routers. >> But ARIN *does* have direct and complete control over its part >> of the in-addr.arpa DNS tree, *and* also the ARIN WHOIS data base, >> and it can do whatver it is authorized to do, by the membership, >> with those. So the situateion *is* in fact somewhat analogous. > > Yes, I’ve stated as much. However, unlike ICANN where turning off the > DNS for a zone really actually hurts, ARIN turning off rDNS is a minor > Inconvenience at most and changing whois is, in some circumstances, > more likely to make the registry less useful than to drive behavioral > changes by those who run routers.
ARIN/RIPE/APNIC/… actually need DNS Hygiene Policies though this thread is not the place to discuss it. Even the basics from STD 13 are not being done as far as I can tell. >> *) Yes, ISPs really are resellers of what ARIN gives them, just as >> domain registrars are resellers of the stuff that ICANN gives them. >> To claim otherwise is to deny simple factual reality. > > Actually, to claim this is the case is to deny simple factual reality, IMHO. > >> But David Farmer advised caution... as all ARIN members seem to advise all >> of the time when it comes to anything novel in the way of policy ideas... >> lest we unfairly create difficulties for poor widdle "innocents" who have >> foolishly bought IP addresses from an ISP that takes their money and then >> disappears in some manner. > > David advocated (and I agree with) caution in the exercise of ARIN’s powers > to revoke address space. What he didn’t advocate (which is the reductio > ad absurdum process that you turned that into) was ARIN providing DR > for one and all victims of same and then feeling free to revoke at will. > >> My point is this: This community can't have it both ways. It either *is* >> seriously concerned with the harm the befalls "innocents" when they buy >> IP addresses from middlemen who may disappear tomorrow, for whatever >> reason, or else it isn't. If it is, then it should get busy making a >> rational, well-thought-out and compassionate plan for dealing with such >> "innocents". Conversely, if the community *doesn't* actually give a rat's >> ass about the fate of such foolish and uncareful buyers, then David >> Farmer should retract his advice to proceed with caution, e.g. when it >> comes to terminating the likes of Micfo and kicking their asses to the >> curb, expeditiously and with extreme prejuduce. > > I’m surprised that by your age, you still haven’t learned that despite the > nice clean and convenient resolutions provided by digital, we are actually > still living in an analog world. The community can be cautious about > revocation > while not shouldering the additional burden of DR for those who are impacted > by revocations. > > Owen > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: [email protected] _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
