Probably do what the rest of us do? Anchor the allocated prefix in "the region" 
and call it a day. 

This seems seriously anti competitive, hence my own desire for a sixth, 
Depository?, RIR.  If we had one or even many this would not be an issue.  
YMMV. 

Best, 

-M<



> On Feb 25, 2015, at 16:43, Milton L Mueller <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Jon
> Yes, it's clear that you support the intent of 2014-1, which is to reconcile 
> actual staff practice with an approved policy. But it also sounds like you 
> think our threshold requirement can  be gamed?  The "speaking Romanian" issue 
> (or more likely, speaking Chinese) has been the subject of fierce debates. Do 
> you have specific suggestions for how we could fix this? 
> 
> --MM
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jon Lewis [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 1:10 PM
>> To: Martin Hannigan
>> Cc: Milton L Mueller; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use
>> 
>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2014, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>> 
>>>>> resources stating that this is a no op as well:  already using
>>>>> numbers in other regions and even ARIN (Curran) chimed in and said
>>>>> that it wasn't a problem.
>>>> 
>>>> I think you're interpretation of the situation is WAY out of line
>>>> with the reality. Staff wants to STOP out of region use, and is doing
>>>> so de facto because of the ambiguities in the policy. Yes, lots of
>>>> people are already using numbers in other regions but if you want to
>>>> continue to do that with new requests we need to solidify the policy
>>>> and make it clear that this is ok.
>>> 
>>> I don't think I took the discussion out of context at all. Both Matt
>>> Petach and I stood up and said that we both use numbers out of region.
>>> What's the big deal? John commented that it wasn't. If that's not
>>> accurate, I'd be interested in your interpretation.
>> 
>> Sorry about digging up this old thread...
>> 
>> The problem (my problem anyway) is that I was just told by ARIN staff (Leslie
>> Nobile at the event yesterday and confirmed just now via the
>> helpdesk) that NRPM 4.5 can't be used by an ARIN member to request
>> resources to be used out of region and, perhaps more troubling, that v4
>> space used out of region does not count towards calculating space
>> utilization when an organization requests additional space from ARIN unless
>> a less specific route is advertised in-region.
>> 
>> I wasn't prepared to argue about either of these "policies" yesterday, but
>> after searching the NRPM, I can't find any basis for either of them.  So, I
>> called the helpdesk to double-check / ask where in the NRPM I could find
>> these "policies".  I was told they're based on ARIN's interpretation of 2.2,
>> specifically "The primary role of RIRs is to manage and distribute public
>> Internet address space within their respective regions."  Those are some very
>> specific "policies" derived from a very vague sentence, which I think could
>> just as reasonably be interpreted as meaning the RIRs exist to serve
>> organizations headquartered in their respective service regions.
>> You're a US corporation, ARIN is your RIR.  You're a German corporation,
>> RIPE is your RIR.
>> 
>>>> "The requirement to have a minimal level of resources deployed in the
>>>> region (/44 for IPv6, /22 for IPv4, 1 ASN) is an attempt to respond
>>>> to law enforcement and some community concerns. An absolute
>> threshold
>>>> ensures that those applying for ARIN resources are actually operating
>>>> in the region and not simply a shell company, but it avoids the known
>>>> pitfalls of trying to use percentages of the organization's overall
>>>> holdings to do that."
>> 
>> I think I understand the intent of that requirement, but it's kind of 
>> pointless,
>> especially as currently written:
>> 
>>  ARIN registered resources may be used outside the ARIN service region.
>>  Out of region use of IPv4, IPv6, or ASNs are valid justification for
>>  additional number resources if the applicant is currently using at least
>>  the equivalent of a /22 of IPv4, /44 of IPv6, or 1 ASN within the ARIN
>>  service region, respectively.
>> 
>> If I were a European org wanting to get space from ARIN instead of RIPE, all 
>> I
>> have to do is buy a VM on some ARIN-region cloud provider, get them to do
>> BGP with my VM, and I've satisfied the requirement?  If you think that's far
>> fetched, see the recent thread on NANOG about cloud providers willing to
>> do BGP with VMs.  All that does is slightly increase the cost of violating 
>> the
>> intent of the policy.
>> 
>> I think 2014-1 shouldn't be necessary, but since current ARIN "policy" is
>> based on an interpretation I disagree with of vague language in section 2, I
>> suppose I'm all for passage of 2014-1.
>> 
>> I just hope it doesn't have the sort of unintended consequences I think it
>> could easily have.  Does the helpdesk have many staffers who speak
>> Romanian?
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Jon Lewis, MCP :)           |  I route
>>                              |  therefore you are _________
>> http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
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