Hi Qin,

Please see below.

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Qin Wu <[email protected]> wrote:

>  Hi, Richard:****
>
> Thank for your valuable review, you have a good understand to this draft.*
> ***
>
> Please see my reply inline below.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards!
> -Qin****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf
> Of *Y. Richard Yang
> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2013 10:01 AM
> *To:* Qin Wu
> *Cc:* [email protected]; Xialiang (C)
> *Subject:* Re: [alto] FW: I-D Action: draft-wu-alto-json-te-00.txt****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Qin,****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for the work on TE performance metrics. Here are some quick
> comments:****
>
> ** **
>
> - It is not fully clear to me if you want to consider linkdelay,
> linkjitter, ... as new Cost Metrics also or they will be only constraints
> of the "routingcost" Cost Metric. Does it make sense to consider them as
> Cost Metrics?****
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]:You raised a very good question. We can either put performance
> metrics like link delay, link jitter as constraints of the “routing cost”
> with few impact on ALTO base protocol or consider them as new cost metrics
> with more extension to ALTO base protocol.****
>
> My current take is the benefit of coupling link delay, link jitter with
> “routing cost” is to provide finer granularity for “routing cost” since
> routing cost can be calculated based on constraints likelink delay, link
> jitter as input.****
>
> ** **
>
> Decoupling link delay, link jitter from ‘routing cost’ lost such benefit.*
> ***
>
> **
>

Adding new Cost Metrics may not be too much an impact, but does require
registration.

The idea of "coupling" is interesting. By coupling, I think you mean using
the new metrics as constraints but retrieve "routingcost". In a general
setting, I believe that an SQL-like syntax can be quite helpful when
defining the filtering service (see page 49):

select CostMap<cost-type1>
where <PIFilter condition> and <constraints>

The current syntax of each constraint item <constraint> is simple:

[gt | lt | ge | le | eq ] <value> ...

but one way to make it more general is

<cost-type2>  [gt | lt | ge | le | eq ] <value> ...

The current syntax essentially omits <cost-type2> and assumes that it is
<cost-type1>. But I feel that the line right above can be more general.

I feel that extension to the more general syntax will be beneficial, but
may be in the next version. What do you think?

Richard

> **
>
> - If so, a feedback is that ALTO Cost Metric need to follow the RFC 6390:*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]: Agree, however we are not new cost metric in the current draft,
> currently we consider link delay as constraint of ‘routingcost’.****
>
> ** **
>
>
> 6390 Guidelines for Considering New Performance Metric Development. A.
>      Clark, B. Claise. October 2011. (Format: TXT=49930 bytes) (Also
>      BCP0170) (Status: BEST CURRENT PRACTICE)****
>
> ** **
>
> In particular, Sec. 5.4 of RFC 6390 specifies a template for specifying
> additional performance metrics (Cost Metrics). I believe that we will
> follow the template. As an example, the template specifies Units of
> Measurement (item iv) which are missing in the draft. How about we follow
> the template?****
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]: If you believe we should define new Cost metric, I think we should
> follow RFC6390 template.****
>
> However we are not supposed to define new metrics in this draft rather
> than reference the metrics that have already been defined in
> draft-ietf-ospf-te-metric-extensions****
>
> Or draft-ietf-isis-te-metric-extensions.****
>
> ** **
>
> Another clarification to your question, is actually we have already
> specified measurement unit for each performance metric even though they are
> existing metrics defined somewhere else, see ‘linkdelay’ example in the
> draft:****
>
> “****
>
> Value type:  A single number value containing an integer component that***
> *
>
>                may be prefixed with an optional minus sign, which may****
>
>                be followed by a fraction part and/or an exponent part.****
>
> “****
>
> **
>

I see. I was referring to something like "ms" (milliseconds).


>  **
>
> - In your example json: ****
>
> ** **
>
>    "data": {****
>
>             "cost type": {****
>
>                "cost-mode": "numerical",****
>
>                "cost-metric":"routingcost"},****
>
>             "constraints" : {"linkdelay"},****
>
>             "endpoints": {****
>
>                     "srcs": [ "ipv4:192.0.2.2" ],****
>
>                     "dsts": [****
>
>                     "ipv4:192.0.2.89",****
>
>                     "ipv4:198.51.100.34",****
>
>                     "ipv4:203.0.113.45"****
>
>                              ]****
>
>             }****
>
> // YRY: missing <- "}" ?****
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]: Good catch, thanks.****
>
> ** **
>
>     "map": {****
>
>             "ipv4:192.0.2.2": {****
>
>             "ipv4:192.0.2.89": 0.0[linkdelay eq 0.0],****
>
>             "ipv4:198.51.100.34": 15.0[linkdelay eq 3.0],****
>
>             "ipv4:203.0.113.45": 1.0[linkdelay eq 12.0],****
>
>                   }****
>
>               }****
>
>  ** **
>
> Is the example query or response? I understand that they are response, but
> I feel that it can be helpful to start with specifying the input of
> filtering. ****
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]:Correct, agree.****
>
> ** **
>
> Let's see if my understanding of your input is correct. The current spec
> is:
>
> ****
>
> object {****
>
>      CostType   cost-type;****
>
>      [JSONString constraints<0..*>;]****
>
>      [PIDFilter  pids;]****
>
> } ReqFilteredCostMap;****
>
> ** **
>
> object {****
>
>      PIDName srcs<0..*>;****
>
>      PIDName dsts<0..*>;****
>
> } PIDFilter;****
>
>  ** **
>
> You appear to extend the request format to be:****
>
> object {****
>
>      CostType   cost-type;****
>
>      [JSONString constraints<0..*>;]****
>
>      [Endpoints endpoints;]  // YRY: new?****
>
> ** **
>
>      [PIDFilter  pids;]****
>
> } ReqFilteredCostMap;****
>
>  I feel that you are extending the syntax of "constraints" (see top of
> page 49 of -17). Will it be helpful to define the grammar first?****
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]: Just to clarify, we follow the existing grammar defined in the
> section 10.4.1.3 of ALTO base protocol draft:****
>
> “****
>
> *10.4.1.3*<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-alto-protocol-17#section-10.4.1.3>
> *.  Accept Input Parameters*****
>
> ** **
>
>    An ALTO Client supplies the endpoint cost parameters through a media***
> *
>
>    type "application/alto-endpointcostparams+json", with an HTTP POST****
>
>    entity body of a JSON Object of type ReqEndpointCostMap:****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>    object {****
>
>      CostType          cost-type;****
>
>      [JSONString       constraints<0..*>;]****
>
>      EndpointFilter    endpoints;****
>
>    } ReqEndpointCostMap;****
>
> ** **
>
>    object {****
>
>      [TypedEndpointAddr srcs<0..*>;]****
>
>      [TypedEndpointAddr dsts<0..*>;]****
>
>    } EndpointFilter;****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ”****
>
> Rather than the grammar you are referring to, in this case, do you believe
> we should define new grammar?****
>
> ** **
>
> - Regarding response, I read that you want the response to include the
> values of multiple attributes. For example, from your example, you are
> trying to say that:****
>
> ** **
>
> from "ipv4:192.0.2.2" to "ipv4:198.51.100.34"****
>
> ** **
>
> has routing cost 15 and delay 3. Is this correct? ****
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]: Correct****
>
> ** **
>
> There are discussions on extending the map to report multiple attributes.,
> and personally, I will find the following format easier to read (more
> symmetric):****
>
> ipv4:198.51.100.34": ["routingcost": 15.0, "linkdelay":3.0],****
>
> ** **
>
> [Qin]:Good point, . We can make this more clear in the next version, thank
> for your proposed change.****
>
> ** **
>
>  Please let me know if I understand you correctly.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks!****
>
> ** **
>
> Richard****
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:48 AM, Qin Wu <[email protected]> wrote:****
>
> Hi,folks:
> Here is the initial draft (v-00)to discuss Json format representation
> for TE performance metrics advertised by OSPF in the ALTO
> information resource Directory.
> The URL link is available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-alto-json-te-00
> Your comments and feedback are welcome!
>
> Regards!
> -Qin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> On Behalf Of [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:21 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-wu-alto-json-te-00.txt
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>
>
>         Title           : JSON Format Extensions for Traffic Engineering
> (TE) performance metrics in the ALTO Information Resource Directory
>         Author(s)       : Qin Wu
>                           Liang Xia
>         Filename        : draft-wu-alto-json-te-00.txt
>         Pages           : 16
>         Date            : 2013-07-08
>
> Abstract:
>    The base ALTO specification defines two properties for cost metric
>    attribute in the Cost MAP, including 'hopcount' and 'routingcost'.
>    This specification adds five new properties and one new parameter for
>    Traffic Engineering(TE) performance related constraint attribute
>    associated with cost metric attribute 'routingcost' in the ALTO
>    Information Resource Directory: Link Delay, Delay Variation, Packet
>    Loss, Residual Bandwidth, Available Bandwidth,linkstate.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wu-alto-json-te
>
> There's also a htmlized version available at:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-alto-json-te-00
>
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
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>
> ** **
>
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