- It depends on what thought you're referring to, because thoughts are personal experiences. The original idea of Agora was originated by M. Norrish via their own creativity but the non-creative activity of perceiving Agora itself gives rise to other ideas (therefore "originating" them as per the term). For example, the personal thought experience of Agora itself within each player. - " Freely originating thoughts means originating thoughts of its own accord" <- there is no explicit mention that the origination needs to be made by the person itself. - The argument can be generalized that Agora, as a gestalt of various game-communications, can originate (in the sense of "giving rise to") various thoughts besides itself. Such as the thought experience of CFJs in the game and whatnot. - Indeed it doesn't. But containing thoughts isn't a requirement to be a person, just originating and communicating them. - The same argument could be put that you (most likely lol) can only communicate ideas that you're able to vocalize/write and think of - and are incapable of communicating any other ideas. Does that mean you do not communicate ideas freely? We could indeed argue that we are indeed not truely entirely free, therefore, none of us are persons, therefore, none of us is actually a player of this game.
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:18 AM, Gaelan Steele <g...@canishe.com> wrote: > Proto-gratuitous arguments: > > There are several issues with this argument. (s/thought/(thought or idea) > throughout) > Agora did not originate the thought of Agora. While Agora may embody that > thought, the thought was originated by Michael Norrish. > Freely originating thoughts means originating thoughts of its own accord. > Agora can’t just go out and originate some idea that hasn’t been thought of > by a player in the past. Agora is not free to originate independent > thoughts. > Thoughts plural. Even ignoring the above points, Agora only originates the > thought of itself. > Agora has no independent thoughts. Any “thoughts” contained within Agora > were originally from a player. > Agora does not communicate ideas freely. It only communicates ideas that > one of us has sent to the mailing list and is incapable of communicating > any other ideas. > > Gaelan > > > On Feb 12, 2018, at 3:14 PM, Cuddle Beam <cuddleb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I Free-CFJ the following: "Agora is a Person" > > > > Grat. Arguments: > > > > R869 says "Any organism that is generally capable of freely > > originating and communicating > > independent thoughts and ideas is a person." > > > > There is no mention that the independent thoughts and ideas that are > > originated or communicated need to be from this "person" themselves. With > > that known: > > > > Agora originates the thought of Agora itself (as its current being - a > real > > thing). If it didn't exist, we wouldn't be able to think of > > Agora-the-real-thing as we do now. > > > > Existing as it does now _initiates_ the process of creating the thought > of > > acknowledging that it exists, therefore it fulfills the definition of > > "originating" that thought. > > > > There is no extraordinary restriction to how Agora performs this feat, > > therefore, Agora freely originates the thought of Agora itself. > > > > Agora is a communication system, evidenced by this mailing list and R101. > > It communicates (without extraordinary restriction) our own independent > > thoughts and ideas, by merit of being a transportation system of those > > things. > > > > And so, Agora does in fact freely originate independent thoughts/ideas > (in > > other entities which are capable of such) and communicates thoughts/ideas > > (from others). Agora is a person. > >
