On 2/14/25 08:46, Katherina Walshe-Grey via agora-official wrote:
> I assign CFJ 4100 to Janet.
>
> CFJ 4100 was called by ais523 and reads: "thimble was already a player
> prior to the above-quoted message."
>
> Original CFJ and caller's arguments:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2024-December/053934.html
>
> Previous judgement from Murphy:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2024-December/053971.html
>
> Gratuitous arguments from ais523 and Murphy:
>
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064644.html
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064645.html
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064646.html
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064647.html
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064648.html
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064649.html
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064650.html
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-December/064651.html
>
> ~qenya
Evidence:
{
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule 869/54 (Power=3)
How to Join and Leave Agora
Any entity (including a group of entities confederated with the
intent of forming a single person under this Rule) that is or ever
was able to willingly communicate original ideas is a person.
Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, no other entities are
persons.
Questions about personhood are to be resolved equitably, with
regard for the good-faith of those involved and the customs of
honorable play.
Citizenship is a secured person switch with values Unregistered
(default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar. A registered
person is a Player. To "register" someone is to flip that person's
Citizenship switch from Unregistered to Registered.
An Unregistered person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
prevented by Rules of power 3 or greater) register by publishing a
message that indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably
unambiguously eir desire to become a player at that time (for
example, by saying "I register"). Rules to the contrary
notwithstanding, two or more persons CANNOT become Registered
simultaneously.
The basis of a person is the set of all persons that are
(recursively) part of em, in addition to emself. Rules to the
contrary notwithstanding, a person CANNOT become Registered if eir
basis overlaps with that of any current player.
A player, acting as emself, CAN deregister (cease being a player)
by announcement. If e does so, e CANNOT register or be registered
for 30 days.
A person, by registering, agrees to abide by the Rules. The Rules
CANNOT otherwise bind a person to abide by any agreement without
that person's willful consent.
The Rules CANNOT compel non-players to act without their express
or reasonably implied consent. The rules CANNOT compel players to
unduly harass non-players. A non-person CANNOT be a player, rules
to the contrary notwithstanding.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
}
Arguments:
{
ais523 noted the following in the discussion of this case:
{
For what it's worth, since my last message, I have thought of an
argument that the registration might have failed, but it isn't in the
judgement: to have a desire to become a player, a person must a) desire
to be a player upon receipt of the message and b) believe that e was not
a player prior to the message. To me, the message in question clearly
demonstrates a), but it may not have demonstrated b). (The interesting
legal point is whether specifying the From: address as a person
previously unknown to Agora is sufficient to indicate that e does not
believe e was previously a player; it is unreasonable to expect someone
to believe emself to be a player if e has never interacted with Agora,
but it isn't obvious to me whether that fact is contained within the
part of the message that the rule is looking at.)
}
I broadly agree with this. Rule 869 requires that the message that
causes registration must indicate a "desire to become a player at that
time". The message itself does not "indicate" that thimble was not
previously a player and that e wanted to become one by "at that time".
Indeed, an identical message to the one question could have been sent
immediately after a registration without anyone batting an eye.
That was not the case for the in question in CFJ 2972, there was a
reference to the act of doing *something* by sending the message, even
if that it was registration was implicit. Attempting to do the same
thing while already being registered would have merely caused confusion.
As such, I hold that, for a message to be cause registration, its
contents must affirmatively (though not necessarily explicitly)
demonstrate that the author intended for eir Citizenship to *change* as
a result of sending the message, not merely that e intends be a player
at the time the message is received.
CFJ 4100 judged FALSE.
}
[Just in time :).]
--
Janet Cobb
Assessor, Rulekeepor
