"head up its ass" is a cute aphorism for the ancient concept of Maya but doesn't really reflect the rigorous reformulation that Godel owes us.
On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 7:10 AM Quan Tesla <[email protected]> wrote: > Godel might muse that even a system with its head up its ass cannot know > itself to completion. > > On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 8:43 AM James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: > >> What would Godel say about a NOT gate with its input connected to its >> output? >> >> On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 9:28 PM Quan Tesla <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Gödel's incompleteness theorum still wins this argument. However, what >>> really happens in unseen space remains fraught with possibility. The >>> question remains: how exactly is this relevant to AGI? >>> >>> In transition, energy is always "lost" to externalities. Excellent >>> design would limit such losses to not impact negatively on internal >>> functionality. E.g., Losses can be recycled for reuse, and so on. It all >>> depends on the relevance of the dynamical boundary that was either set, or >>> which emerged. >>> >>> Even so, the "lossy" argument should be finite. As a system, its >>> boundaries of argument should also be maintained. This remains true for all >>> systems, even systems of systems. As such, it's more a function of a design >>> decision, than an incomplete argument. >>> On 12 Nov 2021 20:41, "James Bowery" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 6:27 AM John Rose <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> While these examples may sound edgy, often these incompleteness's are >>>>> where there is much to be learned. Exploring may help some understandings >>>>> especially, as James pointed out, that “AIXI = AIT⊗SDT = Algorithmic >>>>> Information Theory ⊗ Sequential Decision Theory". >>>>> >>>> >>>> AIXI *reduced* the parameter count of an AGI with unlimited >>>> computation but limited information. Before you jump all over the fact >>>> that it is necessary to limit the computation, we still need to talk about >>>> the remaining open parameters in AIXI. In AIT the open parameter is: >>>> "Which Turing Machine?" In SDT the open parameter is "Which Utility >>>> Function?" >>>> >>>> To answer "Which Turing Machine?" I've intuited an approach that Matt >>>> reduced to a pretty restrictive descriptive space of NOR DCGs. This >>>> reduces what might be thought of as the descriptive space of Turing >>>> Machines to what Matt formalized. It doesn't get rid of _all_ of the >>>> unknowns in that space, but it is far more rigorous than the descriptive >>>> space of all UTMs. There is a _lot_ of work to be done with this approach >>>> and advances will, IMNSHO, have immediate and profound application in logic >>>> design. >>>> >>>> To answer "Which Utility Function?" we must become a lot more >>>> philosophically serious than has heretofore been the case in all the >>>> brouhaha about "friendly AI". >>>> >>>> Hutter's paper "A Complete Theory of Everything (will be subjective) >>>> <https://arxiv.org/abs/0912.5434>" is his (still incomplete) approach >>>> to addressing what you refer to as "these incompleteness's". >>>> >>>> Now, having said all that: Yes, the measurement level of abstraction >>>> does get into the economics of computation resources and, yes, it would be >>>> nice to find approaches that obviate all of the above "incompletenesses", >>>> but you must do better than to redefine the words "lossy" and "lossless" >>>> compression as that merely hobbles an existing approach to these >>>> incompletenesses while at the same time threatening to hobble their >>>> practical applications by confusing the meanings of words. >>>> >>> *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + > delivery options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> > Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T5ff6237e11d945fb-M2ceca09b8d49970ead03666b> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T5ff6237e11d945fb-Ma2df8658bd0d2dce40074df9 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
