Many carriers will only sell intrastate ptp circuits under a interstate agreements which they will collect usf fees on (and maybe not remit them forward?)
On Tue, May 26, 2026, 10:26 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: > I get it. It's like when you pay a fee to apply for a permit. It's "not > a tax" in the sense that the legislature doesn't levy it and doesn't > control the money. Chuck is obviously right that if you dialed a phone > number then the call touched the phone system *at least* for a database > lookup. > > I also get that when we pay money to the government it doesn't make any > practical difference whether they call it a "tax" or a "fee". The money is > gone and you didn't truly have a choice in the matter. Never dialing phone > numbers is not a realistic option, not unless you're a hermit or otherwise > don't participate in society. > > What is the justification for charging USF on Interstate point-to-point > anyway? Is it like, "It *could *carry VoIP traffic, so we're just going > to assume it does"? I feel like someone who uses a lot of point-to-point > strictly for purposes unrelated to internet or telephone traffic could sue > for damages. They'd have to pay a lot of USF fees to make that worth the > trouble though. > > -Adam > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Chuck <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2026 4:47 PM > *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > Be different if ISPs could draw from the fund based upon in your revenue > requirement. I promise you would love it. Gravy train. > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 21, 2026, at 9:37 AM, Dan P via AF <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I am all for that, but for the love of god please don’t put it in the USF > light money on fire fund, put it into Fusion power research, or other alt > energy funds. > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2026 9:31 AM > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > Tax AI. > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Dan P via AF > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2026 10:22 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Dan P <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > Dear god, imagine hitting datacenter services, everything ISP related? > it would be one of the biggest money slush funds out there > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2026 9:18 AM > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > Every year there is talk of expanding the contribution base, i.e. making > ISPs pay into USF. So be careful what you wish for. > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Dan P via AF > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2026 10:06 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Dan P <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > The few calls I take are likely never touching the PSTN, to be honest I > hate any phone calls, and from what I can see current generation also is > low phone usage or any usage of PSTN (cell to cell on same carrier likely > would never touch it, discord, teams, google chat, etc. > > > > But the point is, p2p data links are not PSTN, yet massive amount of USF > tax gets pulled on them, yet seeing how mismanaged the program is just > pissed me off. > > > > *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2026 4:26 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Dan P <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > To offer a probably glib response: > > > > Don't want to use the USF, do not dial PSTN phone numbers. > > > > That is the link. Doesn't matter if you use VOIP, if you use that phone > number the PSTN is involved on some level. > > > > There are ways to talk and communicate without a phone number. Like a > Facebook phone call. > > > > > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/8401+N+Commerce+Dr+%0D%0A+Lake+Point,+Utah+84074?entry=gmail&source=g>Best > Regards, > Chuck McCown > > McCown Technology Corporation > 8401 N Commerce Dr > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/8401+N+Commerce+Dr+%0D%0A+Lake+Point,+Utah+84074?entry=gmail&source=g> > Lake Point, Utah 84074 > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/8401+N+Commerce+Dr+%0D%0A+Lake+Point,+Utah+84074?entry=gmail&source=g> > 801-250-9503 Office > 435-830-4306 Cell > www.mccowntech.com > www.microtrench.pro > www.terabitnetworks.com > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Dan P via AF < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2026 3:02 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Dan P <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > Ha, if only it was PSTN, I would be happy to never use it, everything is > VOIP now. Pretty much everyone and their mother now adds USF (some even > put it in the tax section of their bill) between Zayo, Lumen, packet > exchange, and other carriers we use we pay over 10k a mo on the useless > funds, going to BS life support to the wrong people. None of these use > the original PSTN, many have their own dark fiber, but because out point > to point Intnetnet links go over state lines its an immediate usf tax which > gets pricy on 100 and 400G links. > > > > *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2026 3:42 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Dan P <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > Technically it is not and was never a tax. It is a user fee that replaced > the old AT&T interstate line haul sharing that went away with divestiture. > When AT&T quit sharing a portion of the toll with the small independent > telcos NECA and later USF stepped into that gap and allow them to get the > revenue recovery that the law specifies by tariff. > > > > If someone doesn't want to pay USF, then avoid using the PSTN. > > > > Has been quite the gravy train for ILECS for a very long time. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Dan P via AF < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2026 12:16 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Dan P <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] USF not a tax! IMO should die asap > > > > And I am sure we all know this isn’t a one off deal. I always love how > its pushed as “not a tax” > > > > > https://www.propublica.org/article/alaska-telecom-subsidies-roger-shoffstall > > > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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