One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even in the field of welding pay higher to start."
Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves." On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote: > A lot of what is happening now can be attributed to housing imho. > > A house is your domain. The place you get things done. Your mind expands, > you have more space to enjoy hobbies or learn something new. Personally, I > don’t get that from an apartment when I have to worry about my neighbours > and volume levels and having no space to do anything. > > I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with making your own sandwich, or > living at your appropriate means, but I don’t consider living with > roommates living. It’s a stepping stone to the American dream (owning a > house). > > My parents have told me about their times growing up, living in the single > wide. The pipes would freeze every winter and my dad would be down there > with the hair dryer in the 70’s to unthaw. That’s all fine and dandy. When > they had me in 88, they bought a house, probably 1700sqft, it was nice. I > wouldn’t have had the childhood I had by being in a trailer. > > I don’t really believe in religion of any kind, they all have valuable > teachings (and not so valuable) but I think it’s just how you think about > the world at large. Things are always changing, and I don’t think it’s a > bad mantra to think that the new generation should have it better than > generations past. Doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, or applying > yourself. In Canada specifically our housing is so out of control that even > a new family with one kid still has to rent and/or be in a small apartment > unless they wait until they’re 40 and have had decent paying jobs (70k) a > year for a while. > > Or live in the boonies and kill your own food, gather your own wood, and > there’s nothing wrong with that either. > > > > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 5:25 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: > >> Exactly what problems are young people facing? Almost every single one >> that wants to can enlist in the military. That will feed them and teach >> them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out >> with the VA and GI Bill. Pell grants, student loans. >> >> If someone wants to better themselves, they can. Kids today have it far >> easier than ever before. Work from home, online classes that are free, >> hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube. >> >> What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich? If you are broke, don’t >> f**king spend. You are making my point for me. >> >> Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and >> living in a single wide. Those are human rights abuses man! (said all the >> snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer) >> >> Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain does >> it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”? >> >> You eat what you kill. >> >> >> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/ >> >> >> *From:* Ryan Ray >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >> >> Not defeatist or jealousy or envy. >> >> I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years old). >> Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for someone my >> age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of long >> nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without >> having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old >> folks, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. >> >> However, your attitude is what makes me call you a boomer. You seem to >> have no empathy and are not willing to discuss the current problems facing >> young people today. You keep referencing back to how you did it, and just a >> few bucks in the 80's or the 70's or whatever. I could see it in your post. >> Saying things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride the bus, live in a >> trailer" >> >> Don't get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot from you >> over the years both in person and through this list. I take that as one of >> my core values is to listen to people, even when I think they're stupidly >> wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any viewpoint and that >> makes me better in everything I do. >> >> I just think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic issues >> plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had it, >> just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or should we >> just keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and you got yours, so >> the young kids can go pound sand because their $18/hr job should suffice. >> (BTW my first "real" job back in 2008 was 35k a year) I was 19. No >> schooling, and that would be your $18/hr now. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >> >>> Defeatist attitude. >>> >>> Or just jealous? Envy? >>> >>> In 1990 I was so broke I was sitting on the side of the highway with my >>> 4 kids (at the time) selling everything I had to get a bus ticket to get >>> out of town to get to a job to make a few bucks to move the family. >>> >>> Fast forward 10 short years and I had enough to retire. >>> Just hard work. At 40 no less, not 50. >>> >>> And now 33 years later my house is 5 X larger than that. >>> Hell, my garage is bigger than that. >>> And my only roommates have been my kids. >>> >>> But there was some sleeping in dirt and enjoying it at certain periods. >>> Doncha only wish you could be like a boomer... >>> >>> *From:* Ryan Ray >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 3:48 PM >>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>> >>> lol. These boomers I swear. Live in your 5 roommate 2000sqft box until >>> 50, retire at 87. Bcck in my day I slept in a dirt pile and we enjoyed it. >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:41 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Fantasy land >>>> >>>> *From:* Ryan Ray >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:54 PM >>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>> >>>> I think ages make a huge difference in a lot of this. If you're talking >>>> about a 17 year old, you're still living at home, saving all your money, >>>> trying to get out. Sure, $17 an hour would be amazing. >>>> >>>> If you're 22, you should be able to afford a 1br apartment on your own, >>>> you shouldn't need roommates, you should expect that you can save 1k a >>>> month for the future, maybe purchase a home by 28? You're going to need to >>>> make more than $17 an hour. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 1:10 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not sure I am getting your point. Young people frequently struggle >>>>> when starting out. The struggle is valuable. You get ahead by getting >>>>> educated, getting trained, learning skills people will pay you for. You >>>>> do >>>>> not deserve anything but free air to breath and perhaps water if you live >>>>> in an area where it rains. You eat what you kill. >>>>> >>>>> In your example below you are not taking into account, those with half >>>>> a brain will have roomates with which to split all the rent and utilities. >>>>> That one move makes it go to having plenty of spending money. >>>>> >>>>> So what is it you want me to learn here? In 1979 milk was $1/gallon. >>>>> It is now $4.33. Same price adjusted for inflation ... >>>>> >>>>> I do not buy that the kids now-a-days have it any worse than I did. >>>>> >>>>> Cost of a big mac in 1979 was 95 cents. Today, $4.50, same price >>>>> adjusted for inflation... >>>>> >>>>> What do I need to learn here??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Ryan Ray >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:58 PM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>> >>>>> Chuck, >>>>> >>>>> I'm going to assume you're not trying to cherry pick statistics and >>>>> want to learn and listen. >>>>> >>>>> Housing is only one part of the equation. Food, services, fuel, goods >>>>> are at all time highs. Rental markets are becoming unfeasible unless >>>>> living >>>>> with roommates. I'm not sure where or how this mobile home fits in with >>>>> the >>>>> work in your area. Is there work in the area for your daughter to earn $18 >>>>> an hour? >>>>> >>>>> Talent.com says that at $18 an hour, working for 40 hours a week, gets >>>>> you $2500 monthly net. >>>>> Going off these assumptions Cost of Living in Utah (2023) | SoFi >>>>> <https://www.sofi.com/cost-living-utah/> >>>>> >>>>> Rent: $1100 >>>>> Food (No Restaurants): $253 >>>>> Utilities: $300 >>>>> Gas?: $400 >>>>> I think you yanks have things like health insurance. $100/mo? >>>>> >>>>> I haven't thought of everything, but you're already up to $2200/mo. >>>>> You don't get ahead because you're behind before you even start. >>>>> >>>>> Now take into account that the average home price in Utah is $500k and >>>>> you cherry picked some bottom of the barrel trailer. I can't tell if >>>>> you're >>>>> being serious or not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> One of my millennial daughters, grown, married, trying to adult, >>>>>> lives with her brother and his wife told me that I just don’t understand >>>>>> how hard it is today compared to when I was younger. So I did a little >>>>>> comparison for her: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My first paid job in 1976 was $2/hour. That would be about >>>>>> $10.70/hour today. >>>>>> >>>>>> (I was an unpaid apprentice to a machinist in 1974, and slave labor >>>>>> on the farm from 1960 until I escaped). >>>>>> >>>>>> My first skilled, formally trained, semi professional, utility >>>>>> lineman job in 1979 paid $4.50/hour. >>>>>> That would be about $18 today. >>>>>> >>>>>> My first home, single wide 10 x 50 mobile home cost $12,000 in 1982. >>>>>> Or about $36K today. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/744-S-1750-W-Vernal-UT-84078/2070550612_zpid/ >>>>>> >>>>>> So how is it people have it so much worse today? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists >>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:39 AM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>>> >>>>>> Too many parents want to be friends with their kids and not actually >>>>>> parent. Good news is, if you do a good job of parenting, you’ll likely >>>>>> have the opportunity out to become friends with your kids after they move >>>>>> out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeff Broadwick >>>>>> CTIconnect >>>>>> 312-205-2519 Office >>>>>> 574-220-7826 Cell >>>>>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 14, 2023, at 1:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, that’s a problem for sure. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All the youth (and some adults) see online is prosperity and wealth >>>>>> and entitlement. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Your definition of existing just doesn’t even come to their minds. To >>>>>> use a phrase, they literally don’t comprehend it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was living happily in a one room apartment for $400 a month and >>>>>> eating the same PB&J and soup for lunch/dinner on almost no monthly >>>>>> spend. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had an old futon bed that I had purchased in college as furniture. >>>>>> My monthly output was focused on paying rent and a bit for food and my >>>>>> car. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was hungry for more, made my way by learning, taking what I could >>>>>> find and working my way up. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And during none of that did I think to myself, “This is shit, I am >>>>>> entitled to more because I exist.” Lol >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My grown kids ask for very little and even then get told no all the >>>>>> time, or have conditions. >>>>>> >>>>>> I worry about my younger kids that have spent a lot more time online. >>>>>> They still know they get nothing as a default, but they are more entitled >>>>>> in language and practice than my older kids. >>>>>> >>>>>> Society online in general isn’t doing anyone any favors. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I mean some of the youtube crap they watch is just inane, and some of >>>>>> these people just throw around money like it magically appeared to them >>>>>> out >>>>>> of thin air without a care. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no accountability or explanation. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via >>>>>> AF >>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:37 AM >>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> >>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] FB Exchange >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I advertised for hiring yesterday, a no experience necessary, get >>>>>> paid to learn MIG mild steel welding. PT/FT flexible hours. We hire 17 >>>>>> year olds. I immediately got crap from this guy saying that the “young >>>>>> people of today” cannot exist on less than $18/hour which is what he gets >>>>>> and he works from home. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Lots of people defended my $15/entry level, get paid to learn welding >>>>>> position. >>>>>> >>>>>> He deleted his post then sent me this: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Our of respect for you because it wasn't my intent to cause tension, >>>>>> I've deleted my comment on your posting. My only point was to emphasize >>>>>> that the going rate for a lot of entry level jobs is much higher than $15 >>>>>> an hour. Welding is a great skill and can open up great avenues in the >>>>>> future. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> However, The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a lot of >>>>>> candidates will not even walk through the door because other places even >>>>>> in >>>>>> the field of welding pay higher to start. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What I emphasized at my company starting at $18 is just one example. >>>>>> We have people here that make well over $50 an hour because we operate >>>>>> on a >>>>>> commission structure. But that $18 base is livable when a one bedroom is >>>>>> $1000+ in tooele a month and depending on where you live it's as low as >>>>>> $1600+ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Again, never meant to offend so I am sorry for causing you any >>>>>> trouble. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I replied: >>>>>> >>>>>> So you expect someone to walk from High School directly into a job >>>>>> where they can have a nice home, car and things? Wow, without learning a >>>>>> trade, profession or other skill? Our $15/hour people take home >>>>>> $2000/month. Pretty sure someone can exist on that and the smart ones >>>>>> will >>>>>> have roommates or live with their parents. And the smarter ones will >>>>>> quickly be making more than $18/hour. We have exactly zero problems >>>>>> finding as many workers as we need. So your opinion that "youth of >>>>>> today" >>>>>> cannot exist on $15/hour is just that, unfounded opinion. I guess your >>>>>> definition of "exist" is different than mine. You can exist by walking, >>>>>> riding a bicycle or taking a bus to work. You can exist by eating home >>>>>> cooked meals and making a home made sandwich for your lunch. You can >>>>>> exist >>>>>> by wearing clothes from a thrift store. You don't need the latest iPhone >>>>>> and Netflix to exist. Read a book. The struggle IS the journey and is >>>>>> what creates grit and strong character. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> He replied and blocked me: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah Okay Boomer. I was reaching out to be nice but you clearly have >>>>>> no idea what life is like for us today. I just bought my first house at >>>>>> 31 >>>>>> because of how shit things are right now compared to when you were >>>>>> younger. >>>>>> But thanks for proving my point by being an asshole about "my definition >>>>>> of >>>>>> exist" >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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