The Future: Rural hospitals are going to be overloaded. I just can't see any way around that.
Also, UI earnings should be coming out soon. Might see some nice squeeze action. I'm looking for a squeeze to 250. Looks like someone, I'd guess UBNT, was buying up everything under ~135 through the first Covid crash. Unless that was smart shorts covering the float is getting thin. On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 3:21 PM James Howard <ja...@litewire.net> wrote: > I also will observe Lent on this line of discussion but do want to point > out that the antibody test is those who have theoretically already had it. > Was it an antibody test in that you SF that you quoted 2% for below? If > so, that is a different story. Yes, I agree that the 3k tested leaves a > margin of error but 20% of the overall tests done throughout NYC would > indicate LOTS of people who’ve already had it. > > > > > > > > *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Andrews > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 6, 2020 3:12 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > > > I will abate from any other discussion of this, but I do need to point > out that there is _evidence_ of what I quoted. NOT munged numbers put > forth to further an agenda. > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-antibodies-test-ny.html > > Yes Antibody tests on 3 thousand people are subject to the errors of the > antibody tests. I argued exactly that against the testing done by the > Stanford group. But at least this was supposed to be a random cross > section of people. > > On 05/06/2020 12:33 PM, James Howard wrote: > > I’ve read all your posts. You have consistently ignored things that > > don’t fit with what you believe. > > > > NYC was testing NOBODY except suspected cases who either had symptoms or > > had been in direct contact with confirmed cases. > > > > Only 20% of the SUSPECTED cases were coming back positive. This is NOT > > 20% of the population. It’s 20% of the people tested who they thought > > actually had it. > > > > You ridicule Dr. Erickson for using the NYC percentage but if you > > actually listened to what he said, he said that even with the percentage > > a lot higher because they only tested suspected cases, the overall > > numbers if you use those high percentages will not result in the huge > > overall totals that they were predicting and using as basis for the > > policies in place. > > > > Yes there are segments of the population that are at much higher risk. > > People are asking that the people at higher risk be sheltered rather > > than everyone. That makes them evil people? > > > > Chuck. I honestly think it might be time for Ash Wednesday to be > > invoked on at least this line of discussion……… we need 40 days > > > > *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] > *On Behalf Of *Robert Andrews > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 6, 2020 2:24 PM > > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > > > I also think it's important to realize where we are in this whole mess. > > They just tested, extensively, an area in the Mission district in SF and > > released the data yesterday. 2% infection rate mostly in the Latinix > > population. To understand what goes on with this you need to > > understand that testing in NYC is returning 20% infection rates. SIP > > is keeping the rates low and getting us time. When we start seeing > > other locations going to 20% rapidly like in NYC we will see similar > > results and refrigerated trucks for the bodies. I don't want it but I > > think we might be in for some rough road ahead... Utah excepted... > > > > On 05/06/2020 11:12 AM, Adam Moffett wrote: > > > I read an interesting blog post the other day about flu death estimates > > > from the CDC. The CDC estimates from 12,000 - 60,000 flu deaths > > > annually. And yeah that's in the same ballpark with auto accidents. > > > But then consider that Including people I know and people within a > > > degree or two of me, I can easily think of a dozen people who died in > > > car accidents. I know zero people who died of the flu. > > > > > > The piece I was reading was regarding how many confirmed flu deaths > > > doctors actually see and typically they say "I remember one case a few > > > years ago" or similar. If there were truly 12,000 to 60,000 flu deaths > > > every year, then doctors in hospitals would see likely see several > every > > > year. Apparently the CDC estimates flu deaths, and assumes that a > > > certain percentage of other causes of death were actually caused by the > > > flu, including pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic > > > obstructive pulmonary disease. You can read this on the CDC's FAQ about > > > flu: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm. > > > > > > The blogger then speculated that they might err on the high side for > flu > > > deaths because they want people to take it seriously and get > > > vaccinated. I couldn't say if that's true. After reading it, it does > > > seem pretty obvious that for whatever reason they've been overcounting > > > flu deaths. If they weren't then we would all be statistically very > > > likely to know of several people who died of the flu. > > > > > > In any case we don't /really/ know how many people die of the flu > > > either. But we do know, as Ken alludes, we don't typically fill refer > > > trucks with flu victims for lack of a place to put the bodies. Even if > > > we can't agree on specific numerical details, we can directly observe > > > that something abnormal /and not flu like/ is happening. > > > > > > > > > On 5/6/2020 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > >> > > >> AIER is not a neutral source, according to Wikipedia it is devoted to > > >> educating Americans on “the value of personal freedom, free > > >> enterprise, property rights, limited government and sound money”. > > >> Sounds like a libertarian think tank. I don’t pay much attention to > > >> “think tanks”. That seems to be a synonym for partisan advocacy group > > >> funded by rich donors, and a place for ex government officials to park > > >> when their party is out of power. > > >> > > >> Wikipedia says the CDC estimated that flu killed LESS THAN 100,000 > > >> Americans, and that was over 2 years. > > >> > > >> I was in college in 1968/1969. I did not go to Woodstock, take drugs, > > >> or roll around in the mud. No comment on music and sex. I don’t > > >> remember particularly high death rates at the time, certainly they > > >> didn’t run out of places to stack the bodies. > > >> > > >> *From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> *On > Behalf Of *Steven Kenney > > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:04 PM > > >> *To:* af <af@af.afmug.com> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e> > <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> Woodstock happened in the middle of a pandemic. Whats the difference > > now? > > >> > > >> t was the summer of love: in 1969 a half a million people gathered > > >> together to listen to music, take drugs, have sex, roll around in the > > >> mud, and share a densely populated area for one long weekend. > > >> And guess what? The whole thing happened during a health pandemic. In > > >> 1968 the H3N2 pandemic came to the US from Hong Kong. *It killed more > > >> than 100,000 Americans, mostly over the age of 65, which was more > > >> combined fatalities than both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.* > > >> <https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html> > > <https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html%3e> > <https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html%3e%3e> > Schools, > > >> movie theaters, bars, tattoo parlors, restaurants, and, of course, > > >> concerts venues stayed open. The stock market didn’t crash, Congress > > >> didn’t issue a lock down order, the Federal reserve had no > > >> involvement, there was no spike in the suicide rate, violent criminals > > >> weren’t freed from jail, and nobody arrested surfers or hair stylists. > > >> > > >> > > > https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/ > > > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Steven Kenney > > >> Network Operations Manager > > >> WaveDirect Telecommunications > > >> http://www.wavedirect.net > > >> (519)737-WAVE (9283) > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> *From: *"Steven Kenney" <st...@wavedirect.org > > <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org> <st...@wavedirect.org%3e> > > >> <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>> <st...@wavedirect.org%3e%3e> < > mailto:st...@wavedirect.org%3e%3e> <st...@wavedirect.org%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *Sent: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:28:04 PM > > >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> Swiss Doctor the FACTS about Covid19 > > >> > > >> https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ > > >> > > >> Fact #1 is disturbing already. > > >> > > >> According to data from the best-studied countries and regions, the > > >> lethality of Covid19 is on average about 0.20% > > >> > > < > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zC3kW1sMu0sjnT_vP1sh4zL0tF6fIHbA6fcG5RQdqSc/> > > < > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zC3kW1sMu0sjnT_vP1sh4zL0tF6fIHbA6fcG5RQdqSc/%3e> > <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zC3kW1sMu0sjnT_vP1sh4zL0tF6fIHbA6fcG5RQdqSc/%3e%3e>, > > > > > >> which is in the range of a severe influenza > > >> <https://www.ebm-netzwerk.de/en/publications/covid-19> > > <https://www.ebm-netzwerk.de/en/publications/covid-19%3e> > <https://www.ebm-netzwerk.de/en/publications/covid-19%3e%3e> (flu) and > about > > >> twenty times lower than originally assumed > > >> > > < > https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-age-countries-2020-3> > > < > https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-age-countries-2020-3%3e> > <https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-death-rate-by-age-countries-2020-3%3e%3e> > > by > > >> the WHO. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Steven Kenney > > >> Network Operations Manager > > >> WaveDirect Telecommunications > > >> http://www.wavedirect.net > > >> (519)737-WAVE (9283) > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> *From: *"Steven Kenney" <st...@wavedirect.org > > <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org> <st...@wavedirect.org%3e> > > >> <mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>> <st...@wavedirect.org%3e%3e> < > mailto:st...@wavedirect.org%3e%3e> <st...@wavedirect.org%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *Sent: *Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:12:52 PM > > >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> More interesting reading. > > >> > > >> Here is an interesting site I've been following that shows the > > >> mutations, and branches of mutations and their genomes. > > >> > > >> https://nextstrain.org/ncov > > >> > > >> Lets take all the figures into proportion. Is this worse than > > >> previous bad years? > > >> > > >> http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/ > > >> > > >> Are shutdowns really having any tangible effect? Several medical > > >> papers have been submitted, here is just one. > > >> > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1 > > >> > > >> *"**Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no evident > > >> impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic."* > > >> > > >> The 6 foot rule effective? > > >> > > >> > > > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/01/two-metre-rule-reviewed-amid-hope-relaxed-restrictions-could/ > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8256109/Social-distancing-two-metres-apart-based-figure-says-government-adviser.html > > > > >> > > >> > > >> " Social distancing orders for people to keep two metres apart to stop > > >> the spread of *coronavirus* > > >> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/coronavirus/index.html> > > <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/coronavirus/index.html%3e> > <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/coronavirus/index.html%3e%3e> is not > based > > >> on any scientific research, a government adviser has said." > > >> > > >> The Brits had a similar health crisis in 68' > > >> > > >> > > > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/02/britain-handled-1968-flu-epidemic-shutdown-avoided-second-wave/ > > > > >> > > >> > > >> I've also attached a picture that was leaked early on when it was > > >> detected(of a piece of the actual genome). It shows some interesting > > >> differences that don't adhere to the normal mutation process of a > > >> corona virus. They are claimed to be "insertions". > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Steven Kenney > > >> Network Operations Manager > > >> WaveDirect Telecommunications > > >> http://www.wavedirect.net > > >> (519)737-WAVE (9283) > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > <af...@kwisp.com%3e> > > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> <af...@kwisp.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af...@kwisp.com%3e%3e> <af...@kwisp.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:50:24 PM > > >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> Cats are trouble. > > >> > > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG5mOd8Ubsk > > >> > > >> *From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince > > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:29 PM > > >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> Utah cats are easier to herd than NY cats. > > >> > > >> bp > > >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > >> > > >> On 5/5/2020 5:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> > > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> < > mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e%3e> wrote: > > >> > > >> We have been under 1 in Utah for some time now. > > >> > > >> *From:*Bill Prince > > >> > > >> *Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:51 PM > > >> > > >> *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:To:*af@af.afmug.com> > <To:*af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > > >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about all the > > >> different strains of the virus they've identified? If we get a > > >> vaccine in a year or so, it will probably end up being only useful > > >> for a strain of the virus that has died out by then. > > >> > > >> I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but I > > >> digress). It is about the best description of R, R0 (R nought), > > >> and other variations of R. The point being is that I misunderstood > > >> the concept of "flattening the curve". I had thought that reducing > > >> the spread would end up infecting the same number of people over a > > >> longer period of time (so that we don't overwhelm the health > > >> system). Turns out, that if it's done right, you don't flatten the > > >> curve, but you crush the curve. I also believe that the widely > > >> varied infection/death rates comes from a wide variety of factors; > > >> population density, version of the virus(es) that are "local", > > >> extent of social distancing, etc. etc. However, getting 330 > > >> million Americans to follow a plan is way, way worse than herding > > >> cats. > > >> > > >> > > > https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/ > > >> > > >> bp > > >> > > >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > >> > > >> On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > >> > > >> I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers > > >> saying the original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious > > >> strain that has pushed out its less aggressive predecessor in > > >> Europe and the US east coast. That certainly throws cold > > >> water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build. > > >> > > >> Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate > > >> change before it) is starting to make me think we are no > > >> better at handling new threats than the dinosaurs were when an > > >> asteroid triggered an ice age. And that we may all (not just > > >> the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs. I > > >> mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re > > >> turning on each other and shooting guards at Family Dollar and > > >> talking about gutting and eating our neighbors. (and their > > >> stash of Vienna sausages?) > > >> > > >> https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05 > > >> > > >> *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > *On Behalf Of > > >> *ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> < > mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> > > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e%3e> > > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM > > >> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com > <af@af.afmug.com> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> Need to see if they will float first. > > >> > > >> *From:*James Howard > > >> > > >> *Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM > > >> > > >> *To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > >> > > >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even > > >> agree on what they agree about. > > >> > > >> I certainly don’t agree with #2. It is most certainly WAY more > > >> contagious and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve > > >> gone a full year we won’t know what the actual % death rate is > > >> (if we even know then due to all the debates about what is > > >> counted). > > >> > > >> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this > > >> is about 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the > > >> actual rate of death to cases is lower. What is the > > >> definition of being “more deadly”? > > >> > > >> I disagree about shooting everyone though. I think we should > > >> all be burned at the stake. This of course leads to arguments > > >> about what kind of fuel to use and how to ignite it……. > > >> > > >> *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] > *On Behalf Of > > >> *Steve Jones > > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM > > >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > >> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list. > > >> > > >> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody > > >> steps up, ill argue it > > >> > > >> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science > > >> > > >> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to > > >> do with the disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot > > >> less disagreement that way. Would never work though, we would > > >> never get past the caliber argument to even get to shooting > > >> > > >> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews > > >> <i...@avantwireless.com <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > <i...@avantwireless.com%3e> > > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> <i...@avantwireless.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:i...@avantwireless.com%3e%3e> <i...@avantwireless.com%3e%3e%3e> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Not sure about a4. I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, > > >> New Zealand, > > >> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but > > >> that depends upon > > >> what statistics you are talking about. Hong Kong stands > > >> out the most. > > >> Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you > > >> will wonder WTF > > >> are they making it all up? Could be, but most think they > > >> are accurate > > >> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what > > >> they were > > >> doing more than any other country. 4 deaths. > > >> > > >> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: > > >> > Can summarize this pretty easily. These are facts that > > >> probably we can > > >> > agree upon. > > >> > > > >> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an > > >> exosome. > > >> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu > > >> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. > > >> (statistics and > > >> > predictions are all off) > > >> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar > > >> statistics than > > >> > countries that did. > > >> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe! > > >> > > > >> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with > > >> absolute > > >> > certainty these things are correct. > > >> > > > >> > 1) The virus originated from China > > >> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus. > > >> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally. > > >> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be > > >> specific (old, > > >> > young, white, black, asian etc) > > >> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections > > >> are 100% > > >> > accurate. There are cases all over of under reporting > > >> and over reporting. > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Steven Kenney > > >> > Network Operations Manager > > >> > WaveDirect Telecommunications > > >> > http://www.wavedirect.net > > >> > (519)737-WAVE (9283) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > *From: *"Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com > > <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> <mhoward...@gmail.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> <mhoward...@gmail.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com%3e%3e> <mhoward...@gmail.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> > *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM > > >> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? > > >> > > > >> > It seems to me, that what really matters is how many > > >> deaths there have > > >> > been in excess of what the average was for the same > > >> period in previous > > >> > years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in > > >> the NYT article, > > >> > but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail > > >> they go into). > > >> > We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of > > >> a heart attack > > >> > died because they had covid19 or whether they just had > > >> an unrelated > > >> > heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of > > >> covid, and whether > > >> > they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't > > >> really matter. If > > >> > say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in > > >> April for the past 5 > > >> > years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty > > >> safely blame 5,000 > > >> > of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if > > >> 6,000 people > > >> > actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died > > >> of flu anyway, > > >> > and it just happened to be covid that finished them off > > >> instead, or if > > >> > 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they > > >> jumped off a > > >> > bridge and were never infected. > > >> > I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate > > >> numbers of how many > > >> > people directly died of the infection (other than maybe > > >> in Utah), but in > > >> > a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of > > >> how many excess > > >> > deaths there were. > > >> > > > >> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com > > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> <af...@kwisp.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com%20%0b>> <af...@kwisp.com%20%0b%3e%3e> < > mailto:af...@kwisp.com%20%0b%3e%3e> <af...@kwisp.com%20%0b%3e%3e%3e> > > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> <af...@kwisp.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af...@kwisp.com%3e%3e> <af...@kwisp.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately > > >> dispute these graphs > > >> > because the source is NYT which they will perceive > > >> as biased. But > > >> > if you read the article, they go out of their way to > > >> point out > > >> > possible errors in the data, as well as other > > >> influences like > > >> > overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of > > >> other causes, > > >> > but also less deaths due to traffic and violence. > > >> And the data as > > >> > Bill says is from other sources, the paper didn’t > > >> make them up to > > >> > suit a political agenda or bias.____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html > ____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths > > >> were undercounted > > >> > because the system was overwhelmed. Even in NYC, > > >> the morgues and > > >> > crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies > > >> in refrigerated > > >> > semis, you can’t possibly claim these are just the > > >> normal deaths > > >> > being mislabeled as Covid related to suit an > > >> agenda. Then you have > > >> > all the prison and nursing home deaths. OK, sure, > > >> elderly people > > >> > croak all the time, it’s a hoax.____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com < > mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%0b>> > <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%0b%3e%3e> > > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%0b%3e%3e> > <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%0b%3e%3e%3e> > > >> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince > > >> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM > > >> > *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > The numbers posted on various web sites are neither > > >> government > > >> > sourced or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, > > >> and morgues are > > >> > supplying the numbers. There is a level of > > >> uncertainty because of > > >> > different criteria. That is true for the US cases, > > >> but probably not > > >> > for other countries. For example, the numbers coming > > >> from China (and > > >> > several other countries) are by design government > > >> based. But to > > >> > brush them all off as "government or corporations" > > >> is being naive at > > >> > least.____ > > >> > > > >> > I would not say that "most" patients have > > >> pre-existing conditions. > > >> > Maybe a high percentage, but it does not explain why > > >> such a large > > >> > number of otherwise healthy people are being > > >> infected the way they > > >> > are. At some point, we will figure out that there is > > >> a genetic or > > >> > environmental factor that we just do not understand > > >> yet.____ > > >> > > > >> > I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% > > >> accurate, but I also > > >> > do not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious > > >> either. Where you cut > > >> > off is probably a personal thing.____ > > >> > > > >> > bp____ > > >> > > > >> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:____ > > >> > > > >> > You guys work with statistics much? You think > > >> the numbers are > > >> > accurate? At what point have you ever seen > > >> government or > > >> > corporations represent 100% accurate numbers?____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > I'll let you do your own homework. But I've > > >> seen hundreds of > > >> > reports from all over the place of deaths of > > >> natural causes > > >> > being classified as covid deaths. Since most > > >> patients have > > >> > existing conditions and many were already dying > > >> and died of > > >> > those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc) are > > >> being > > >> > attributed to covid. Some people have estimated > > >> that upward of > > >> > 20% misrepresented. So as long as there is 1 > > >> case that is > > >> > questionable - the statistics are not accurate. ____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Steven Kenney > > >> > Network Operations Manager > > >> > WaveDirect Telecommunications > > >> > http://www.wavedirect.net > > >> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > >> > *From: *"Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com > > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> <part15...@gmail.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> <part15...@gmail.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:part15...@gmail.com%3e%3e> <part15...@gmail.com%3e%3e%3e> > > >> > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> <part15...@gmail.com%3e> < > mailto:part15...@gmail.com%3e> <part15...@gmail.com%3e%3e> > > >> > *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM > > >> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's > > >> the best we can > > >> > do when we don't actually test all the suspected > > >> infections. It > > >> > also (probably) missed a whole lot of the early > > >> deaths, as they > > >> > were miss-classified. If you think under-ground > > >> near-do-wells > > >> > are planted in all the hospitals around the > > >> country and are > > >> > coordinating false numbers on all the rest of > > >> us, then I have a > > >> > tin hat that might fit real well.____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > bp____ > > >> > > > >> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:____ > > >> > > > >> > Numbers are completely false. Even with > > >> that taken into > > >> > regard it still is just as lethal as the > > >> regular flu. While > > >> > it is way more harsh on people if they get > > >> it, most people > > >> > have underlying conditions, or didn't know > > >> they had them, or > > >> > didn't take it serious when they got it. ____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further > > >> > their agenda. ____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Steven Kenney > > >> > Network Operations Manager > > >> > WaveDirect Telecommunications > > >> > http://www.wavedirect.net > > >> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > >> > *From: *"chuck" <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com%3e%3e> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e%3e%3e> > > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> < > mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com%3e> <ch...@wbmfg.com%3e%3e> > > >> > *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > <af@af.afmug.com%3e> > > >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e%3e> > > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:af@af.afmug.com%3e> <af@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM > > >> > *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?____ > > >> > > > >> > __ __ > > >> > > > >> > image____ > > >> > > > >> > ____ > > >> > > > >> > Every time I get my hopes up this curve > > >> breaks my heart... > > >> > Let’s hope we are on the tail of a normal > > >> curve. ____ > > >> > > > >> > 6 days in a row decline. But it has done > > >> this cycle 3 times > > >> > before with a huge spike after. ____ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AF mailing list > > >> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ____ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AF mailing list > > >> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ____ > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AF mailing list > > >> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > AF mailing list > > >> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> AF mailing list > > >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com%3e> <AF@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> *Total Control Panel* > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Login <https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net> > > <https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net%3e> > <https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net%3e%3e> > > >> > > >> To: ja...@litewire.net <mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > <ja...@litewire.net%3e> > > >> > > < > https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993&domain=litewire.net> > > < > https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993&domain=litewire.net%3e> > <https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993&domain=litewire.net%3e%3e> > > >> > > >> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e> > > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e> < > mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com%3e%3e> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> /You received this message because the 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