Just to chime in here: Nearmap is doing yearly, higher-res photogrammetry captures of major (sub)urban areas across the US. You can purchase pre-rendered surface models from which you can do all sorts of fun things with. Also, Google's SAS program has a network planner included which allows you to get elevation profiles *with* clutter using the same data as seen on Google Earth. My only problem with it is it only does low-rez RF propagation (no simple viewesheds) and the data is of unknown vintage.
On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 1:19 PM Chuck Hogg <ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> wrote: > Here's 2 examples of 2m vs 30m data as well for Google Earth. If the list > serv strips them, let me know. > > Look at the shadows created by buildings and trees as far as coverage goes > in the 2M data. > > These are random locations in Louisville. The City of Louisville released > their data for free. > > > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:14 PM Chuck Hogg <ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> > wrote: > >> Also, check your states/counties/cities. Some states have had >> initiatives to map this data. The forestry fire service also maps this >> data. There are also point clouds created with this data. Ky for example >> has this data from 2013 to 2018. The 2018 data is still being compiled. >> It's also free. Virginia had whole portions of the state done in 2017. >> >> One good resource is: >> https://www.usgs.gov/core-science-systems/ngp/3dep >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:11 PM Chuck Hogg <ch...@allpointsbroadband.com> >> wrote: >> >>> The LIDAR data processing for a 2M resolution of an OMNI on the platform >>> I'm using takes about 45-75 seconds. The same 30M resolution is typically >>> a done in a second. These are done using 10km radiuses currently, but I'm >>> increasing it to 20km. As you know this will cause it to be significantly >>> heavier on the processing. A geotiff file for one access point using 2M >>> data at 10km radius is about 18MB. The same GeoTIFF for 30M data is under >>> 1MB. 30M is 900Meters squared. 2M is 4M squared. Roughly 225x more >>> datapoints in 2M. >>> >>> Best Regards, Chuck Hogg | *SVP/Director of Acquisitions* >>> *ALL POINTS* *BROADBAND *| *Live Connected.* >>> mobile 502.435.6649 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 3:45 PM Brian Webster <i...@wirelessmapping.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I do not know the answer to that but I suspect that they are just using >>>> the images from multiple angles. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank You, >>>> >>>> Brian Webster >>>> >>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>> >>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 3:23 PM >>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Good question >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/18/2019 3:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>>> >>>> Does Google actually have LIDAR or are they just running the images >>>> that they collect from multiple angles through an algorithm to guess at the >>>> obstructions? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From: *"Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com >>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:53:10 PM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones >>>> >>>> Looks like no 3D building/trees in the profile. >>>> >>>> On 12/18/2019 1:57 PM, Brian Webster wrote: >>>> >>>> Adam, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you draw a line between the AP and the address point and then right >>>> click to show elevation profile, does it look like it’s including the 3D >>>> building/tree as part of the profile or just terrain. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are lucky in NY that the state has mapped every 911 address to the >>>> rooftop and they make it available for download. Not everyone has data that >>>> accurate. 911 address collection quality varies county by county. Not every >>>> county has put it in the public domain for download either. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank You, >>>> >>>> Brian Webster >>>> >>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>> >>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On >>>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:09 PM >>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> NY State makes E911 address points available online. Imported a subset >>>> of that, turned on the "3D Buildings" layer in Google Earth, and then >>>> adjust the view until I'm looking from where the hypothetical AP would be. >>>> >>>> I can click on each point to get the street address, but I'm not keen >>>> to sit here and do that one point at a time. Seems like a job for a >>>> computer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/18/2019 12:33 PM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>> >>>> Thats really cool, how did you get that? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 11:13 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Is the USGS LIDAR/clutter data available in a format that you could >>>> open in Manifold GIS? >>>> >>>> See the Google Earth screenshot below. Wouldn't it be nice to just >>>> have one more command to select only the address points that are "visible" >>>> based on the 3D clutter? I'm betting I could make that work in Manifold. >>>> >>>> Not an RF projection of any sort, just filter out the address points >>>> that can't be "seen" due to 3D clutter. It's an imperfect approach for a >>>> lot of reasons, but it would give me hundreds of almost definite LOS >>>> households that I could sell 100mbps to if I wanted to. >>>> >>>> Or Brian, if that's something you could do as a service that would be >>>> something I'd be willing to talk about offlist. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/18/2019 11:40 AM, Brian Webster wrote: >>>> >>>> I don’t have that level of detail and haven’t personally done any of >>>> the processing, I just know that on the Google Fiber project they would >>>> drive a bunch of streets in a city and then the dedicated server would run >>>> for two or three days to create a usable point cloud data set. Then it had >>>> to be hosted on a separate server due to space requirements. This process >>>> was done by a company who specialized in these LIDAR projects so they had >>>> the tools to do it the most efficient way. I would guess the overall >>>> project file sizes were a couple of terabytes. If you think about it, you >>>> have to have a data record for everything you can see/reflect from because >>>> that data is used to recreate that object in 3D, so the latitude, longitude >>>> and elevation needs to be built for something as simple as a road sign, all >>>> the points on the post and all the points to be able to recreate the sign >>>> and on both sides. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank You, >>>> >>>> Brian Webster >>>> >>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>> >>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On >>>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2019 4:49 PM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Can either of you describe the data size, and processing time? say >>>> clutter per uban square unit (mile kilometers, etc) at this res takes x >>>> time to collect with this particular method, it takes roughly y time to >>>> process it, and it requires z storage. >>>> >>>> Generalization is all im looking for here like , current drone/blimp, >>>> sensor tied to an eagle can only collect an x meter wide path per sweep so >>>> it would take y number of sweeps to cover a square km, the average speed of >>>> collection is x meters per minute and it would take so many fuel stops to >>>> gain that coverage >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> assuming you have that detail of information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 3:29 PM Brian Webster <i...@wirelessmapping.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes Chuck the post processing time it takes to create the 3 >>>> dimensional/axis point cloud data (points with a lat, long and height >>>> value) is massive. When I worked the Google Fiber projects in California we >>>> in cities like San Jose and the post processing took days on dedicated high >>>> end servers for the limited geographic areas we needed. If you have clutter >>>> data at 2 meter resolution you get a much better result of treating the >>>> clutter as a solid object than if doing that with 30 meter resolution data. >>>> The 2 meter resolution will have such high accuracy of being able to see >>>> each building and any single tree that might block a path. In the case of >>>> 30 meter data, the clutter gets classified as only one type. So in many >>>> non-dense urban areas, the 30 meter square gets classified as low density >>>> urban, but then you don’t get any information for a tree lined street or >>>> even the rural plains areas where it’s all open crop land with the >>>> exception of the single tree line planted to block wind on typical rural >>>> farm homes. So averaging the clutter classes becomes more necessary and not >>>> treating it all like solid objects. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When I worked for EarthLink and we were designing the outdoor Wi-Fi >>>> network, we did have the 2 meter resolution tree and building data in >>>> Philadelphia. It made a big difference but as I recall we also paid >>>> $250,000 just for that single city area clutter at that resolution. As you >>>> state there have been business models made on creating this type of data >>>> for years. It’s not cheap to create, so the cost justification vs. the >>>> added resolution accuracy of your intended project is a key consideration. >>>> I do know that NYC has LIDAR data for the whole city in the public domain, >>>> worked nice on the WISP propagations I did for the NY State broadband map >>>> when they had me produce the WISP coverage areas. In the end it’s all about >>>> who is paying to have that high resolution data created. If the government >>>> eventually pays for it, then it should be released in the public domain >>>> because the public funded it (just like their existing map data is today). >>>> It’s still going to take a lot of computing horsepower to digest and use >>>> that data in any RF propagation tool however. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank You, >>>> >>>> Brian Webster >>>> >>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>> >>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck Hogg >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2019 12:46 PM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I thought I would chime in here a bit. Not disputing Brian or anyone >>>> else here, as many accurate statements have been made. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've done some LIDAR propagations at 2M vs 30M DEM data. I found in >>>> areas around mountains and hills (consistent in KY/VA markets) it is very >>>> helpful to treat "clutter" as obstructions. I have reviewed areas where >>>> 30M DEM data shows 400 homes serviced, and 2M LIDAR data shows 17. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Going back to the original question, I know 2 people here in KY that >>>> fly drones for Engineering, Architectural, and Construction firms and I >>>> talked to some of the people at Common Networks, who use some version of >>>> Drone Photogrammetry to create their own datasets. In the construction >>>> industry it is being used to track building things like bridges, tunnels, >>>> commercial buildings, etc. These photogrammetry drone setups are $2-25k. >>>> The Drone Lidar setups are $5-300k and require much larger drones. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Also, it takes a long time to take this data and compile it. I know >>>> they take anywhere from 3-18 months to do this in KY depending on how large >>>> the area and how high of a resolution it is. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's a pretty good video and some tech in the beginning of one in use >>>> showing 5cm accuracy: >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8piSF40StQ&feature=emb_title >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, the opportunity to create a business out of this has been >>>> going on for many years. They have used planes, blimps, and balloons for >>>> years. I could see a move to drones. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best Regards, *Chuck Hogg* | *SVP/Director of Acquisitions* >>>> >>>> *ALL POINTS* *BROADBAND *| *Live Connected.* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:14 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Brian, >>>> >>>> Assuming the software allows you to input your own clutter data, at >>>> high resolution, what impact on processing the models is there as the >>>> clutter data gets higher in resolution? Are we talking massive percentage? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I think im maybe overestimating clutter datas usefulness. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I would first need to have accurate topo data that knows what is >>>> ground, and what is treetop/building roof. And that data really would need >>>> to be at the same, or better resolution than my clutter data. (if my topo >>>> data is 30 meter, and my clutter data is 3 meter, my output will be best >>>> guess on top of the 30 meter average that may or may not have already >>>> included the clutter, depending on when the sampling was done?) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Am I misunderstanding clutter data? I had thought it was plotted >>>> elevations of clutter, but is it more just regionated averages? if that >>>> question makes any sense >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When the topo data was/is collected, are there mechanisms in play to >>>> differentiate terrain from structure/clutter? Say chicago was collected, >>>> would it show ground elevation or would it show the rooftop elevations as >>>> the average ground elevation? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Back to the original query, assuming a guy had a drone with the >>>> capability of carrying the equipment and the battery life to not have to >>>> constantly recharge. Would a person be able to collect both topo and >>>> clutter data, that can differentiate it, and at a fine detail. What kind of >>>> data size is that information? I know that the data available to radio >>>> mobile in the day could be downloaded over dialup given some time, so it >>>> didnt seem to be overly massive. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:07 AM Brian Webster <i...@wirelessmapping.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Clutter data in the public domain is mostly 30 meter square resolution. >>>> Cameron has talked about a lot of the issues with the data. Radio Mobile >>>> (and TowerCoverage since it runs on that) has the ability to tune the >>>> cluster classifications a bit. I worked with Roger in implementing that >>>> clutter model. It is not actually part of the Longley Rice propagation >>>> model, what he did at my begging was allow a user to manually edit the >>>> height and density for each clutter class and then the tool assigns a loss >>>> factor per pixel/30 meter square of clutter and then subtracts the sum >>>> total of the clutter loss for the ray being propagated. This is not perfect >>>> but when the cell companies use their expensive propagation tools, they >>>> tune their clutter models for each market by drive testing a known >>>> transmitter with a roving unit and run those drive test results against >>>> what the software thinks the signals should be. In this process they >>>> compare the know clutter classes that were propagated through and it >>>> self-tweaks the loss factors is applies for each clutter class. In radio >>>> mobile you do basically the same thing but without automation. To get it >>>> right you have to go out and measure a lot of your real world signal levels >>>> and manually run propagations until the two match (minus your fade margins >>>> built in to your plots). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This works well if you spend the time, the bigger issue is that the 30 >>>> meter square is assigned just one clutter class code. In general it works >>>> well for free stuff. The reality of knowing about specific tree lines >>>> alongside a house or in urban environments with tree lined streets or in >>>> back years, those individual trees to not get factored in to your >>>> propagation, just the building losses if that building clutter is set to a >>>> height to show as an obstruction(in WISP cases most are not if you are >>>> mounting your antenna on the roof for average suburban clutter). The answer >>>> to this is to have higher resolution clutter. The terrain data used is 10 >>>> meter resolution, meaning there have been hard data points gathered at >>>> least every 10 meters horizontally and interpolated. Some terrain data is >>>> available at 3 meters but that is not as widely available. So the issue >>>> remains how do you get better resolution clutter data. LIDAR can indeed be >>>> used and the best versions are actually driven on the streets and not flown >>>> from the air. As Cameron mentioned however that data still only gives you >>>> the height/size/area where the clutter is. It does not tell you what type >>>> of class that it is and/or what type of RF losses each pixel of that data >>>> should be assigned, plus you are typically only getting the clutter data >>>> from the street facing side. Think of the old movie sets and only seeing >>>> the building face. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Another method of increasing clutter accuracy is to resample the data >>>> from 30 meter pixels down to smaller sized pixels. This has limited >>>> benefit. Mostly this can allow you to take things like tree clutter and >>>> trim out the highway areas and or possibly cut out the trees with specific >>>> building data footprints and assign a different clutter class by pixel. >>>> This is very tedious to do on a large scale and you first have to have >>>> other good data sources to trim or reclassify these smaller pixels properly >>>> to a new clutter class. While all of this gives you a better physical map >>>> of what and where you have clutter down to a more realistic reality, you >>>> would then have to go back and manually recalibrate the tuning because >>>> tuning over larger pixels is an averaging process using the single clutter >>>> class. As you might guess all of this takes time and money. At some point >>>> there will likely be some cool efforts done by others where we can >>>> integrate this. For instance Microsoft released building outline GIS data >>>> for the whole country that they machine learned from aerial imagery. That >>>> could be used over resampled data although if the buildings had tree cover >>>> they didn’t get captured in the first place because they are not visible in >>>> the images. There are other open source projects for things like spectrum >>>> sensing on a Raspberry Pi and software defined radio that if you put enough >>>> sensors out there they might help tune the clutter loss models. >>>> https://electrosense.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This is probably way more than you wanted to read about clutter data >>>> and RF propagations but hey I am a geek like that. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank You, >>>> >>>> Brian Webster >>>> >>>> www.wirelessmapping.com >>>> >>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *castarritt . >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 05, 2019 4:47 PM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] clutter data and drones >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Google maps uses some of the 1M resolution LIDAR data. Check out >>>> Austin, TX (maybe most other metro areas as well?) in google, enable "globe >>>> view", and then turn on 3D. Now use left ctrl and drag with the mouse to >>>> move your view angle. This is the data cnHeat and the Google CBRS SAS >>>> solution supposedly use. OT: I wonder if any of the usual suspects are >>>> making PC flight simulators that use this data. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 3:30 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The issue with publicly available clutter data is it seems old, poor >>>> resolution or inaccurate. If heat is using the same data as linkplanner, >>>> its definitely bunk. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 3:26 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Have you looked at CnHeat? >>>> >>>> We're about to do some testing with it here. They mentioned USGS LIDAR >>>> as one of the data sources. Presumably that's blended with other imaging >>>> somehow. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/5/2019 4:02 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: >>>> >>>> LIDAR is not clutter specific, it just can't penetrate clutter (it's >>>> light) so clutter ends up looking like terrain. The benefit is that you get >>>> an elevation, the drawback is that you don't know the type of clutter or >>>> how high it is above the terrain. I suppose if you compare the lidar data >>>> against a terrain only DEM, you could extract the clutter height. Here is >>>> the thing... some propagation does penetrate vegetation to some degree, so >>>> if you are talking about frequencies that do, then lidar is not necessarily >>>> a good thing to use as everything ends up looking like an obstruction. You >>>> also need a model that can actually account for clutter (vegetation) >>>> density when talking about how much it will affect the signal. Obviously >>>> leaf types and things like that can have other effects, but I'm unaware of >>>> any model that goes to that depth. While some account for clutter heights >>>> to use diffraction losses and some lump-sum type losses for a given clutter >>>> category, none of the models that are in use in the wisp industry account >>>> for clutter density and there are only a few in existence that do. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You can get high res clutter data (types) from thermal satellite >>>> imaging from one of the geospatial data companies like Terrapin Geographic, >>>> or SPOT. It is surprisingly accurate and is what real prop tools like >>>> Planet use. The downside is no elevations, so you still have user input for >>>> that. Unless you are willing to shell out big bucks, don't bother looking. >>>> We are talking about 10's of thousands for a modestly sized area. The >>>> cellcos can afford it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:41 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Interesting. And unfortunately I don't know any more about LIDAR than >>>> a Google Search does. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/5/2019 11:27 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>> >>>> Just the SAS administrators will be competitive product. So garbage in >>>> garbage out will really apply. Basic SAS functionality is uniform, but >>>> feature sets will differ. More accurate propagation modeling every night >>>> will be something we benefit from and Im thinking that will be one of the >>>> things they compete against each other with. They didnt say that >>>> specifically, but the second iteration of SAS will be more bigger, >>>> potentially even bigly in its scope. I really thought it was all going to >>>> be modeled after cellco, with a bend toward cellcos overtaking CBRS with >>>> shady handshakes and involuntary roaming agreements, but it appears >>>> winnforum isnt just government lackeys, the people involved have actually >>>> put gear in the air or at least listen to those that have. I think >>>> cantgetright may have been a co-chair of a committee somewhere >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Where would a guy who doesnt know what LIDAR is go to find out more >>>> about that clutter data? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:12 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think the USGS is making 3D clutter maps with LIDAR. CnHeat is >>>> supposed to use that wherever it's available. >>>> >>>> I haven't heard how that relates to the SAS though. Is this something >>>> you learned from the "450 Lady"? Care to share? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/5/2019 10:25 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>> >>>> first question is if a guy collects accurate clutter data, can he use >>>> it in any of the propagation tools we use? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> second, and this is where you braniacs come in, what equipment would it >>>> take on a drone to collect this data? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> IIRC drone limit without FAA is something like 300 feet. would that >>>> even be tall enough to sweep a wide enough path that it wouldnt take 300 >>>> battery charges to do a square mile? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I envision a course plotted drone trip that will fly over with a pilot >>>> car trailing to maintain the required operator LOS. >>>> >>>> If you think about how many miles youve put on verifying link paths >>>> over the years, its not really a prohibitive thing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> CBRS and SAS is whats driving this query, but general propagation >>>> anomalies creates quite a pickle that better accuracy/resolution clutter >>>> accuracy would alleviate. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please tell me there is already a consortium thats built out a clutter >>>> standard with a clutter submission mechanism, that would completely tickle >>>> me silly. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I also dont know the impact to the propagation back ends as you >>>> increase the resolution of the data. Im assuming the SAS administrators are >>>> running something a little beefier than Radio Mobile. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I could see this being a lucrative niche market, if there were a way >>>> around the drone operator licensing requirements (though that cost is >>>> pretty minimal). Basically a company builds up a small fleet of drones, >>>> outfitted with the appropriate gear. You create an account, input your >>>> coverage area (or any region) that you want high resolution data for. they >>>> reprogram the course and ship it to you (after collecting the upfront >>>> payment, deposit, and massive liability release) they provide you with a >>>> road course to drive while the drone does its thing, anticipate points of >>>> retrieval for recharge, etc. when its all done, you stick it in the box and >>>> ship it back. would be cooler if the whole thing was transported back and >>>> forth by amazon drones. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If I had a guarantee that the collected data would be useful to the >>>> company, into radio mobile, link planner, towercoverage, and SAS >>>> administrators, its something i could see a fair price tag of 3-10k on it >>>> for our coverage area, and no farmers blasted it out of the sky. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> we use clutter data now thats antiquated so it would come with the >>>> understanding that photosynthesis and bulldozers impact accuracy from the >>>> minute its collected. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> maybe this data is already out there and i dont know? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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