Kelly,
You are right. IBM's pricing model also has in mind IBM customers
that have dozens of Tivoli titles, Websphere, etc., which all use the
PVU model.
I think that IBM should build the license counting into the
product, whether they want to use PVUs or whatever as the metric. There
is no reason why the the TSM client code could not be enhanced to gather
whatever metric is in use and feed it back to the server. This could be
true of Websphere clients and most of the others. Build the code to
count the licenses quietly in the background, and provide a simple
report you can call from the product to find out what you are using.
Compliance would be easy.
Best Regards,
John D. Schneider
The Computer Coaching Community, LLC
Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226
Cell: (314) 750-8721
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
From: Kelly Lipp <l...@storserver.com>
Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 6:48 pm
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
And remember, too, that the PVU thing contemplated something like a DB2
license. Perhaps you had two or three systems that would run DB2. It did
not contemplate something like TSM where EVERY system in the environment
would have the software running. Keeping track of a couple of systems
and their various processor/core/PVU stuff is relatively simple. Keeping
track of that same thing across several hundred (never mind your case!)
is very difficult.
The "one size fits all" mentality of Tivoli software clearly missed the
mark with TSM.
Kelly Lipp
Chief Technical Officer
www.storserver.com
719-266-8777 x7105
STORServer solves your data backup challenges.
Once and for all.
-----Original Message-----
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
John D. Schneider
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:47 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
Kelly,
You are right, IBM must build their license model to ensure the
profit they expect. We can't blame them for doing this as a business.
They can't give their product away for free.
But the PVU based licensing model is a huge problem for an
environment like ours that has over 2000 clients of all different shapes
and kinds. Lots of separate servers, but also VMWare partitions, and
AIX LPARs, and NDMP clients, etc. Keeping up with the PVU rules is a
huge effort, especially the way IBM did it. In Windows, the OS might
tell you that you have 2 processors. But is that a single-core dual
processor, or two separate processors. The OS can't tell, but IBM
insists there is a difference, because it counts PVUs differently in
this case. That is too nit-picky if you ask me, and places too
difficult a burden on the customer. There are freeware utilities that
will correctly count processors IBM's way, but to run them on 2000
servers is a pain, too. We ended up writing our own scripts to call a
freeware tool IBM recommended, then parse the resulting answer to get
the details into a summarized format. As if that wasn't enough, the
freeware tool crashed about 20 of our servers before we realized it.
Boy, was that hard to explain to management!
It is also very objectionable to us that they don't have
sub-processor licensing for large servers like pSeries 595s. We have a
128 processor p595, with a 2-processor LPAR carved out of it running
Oracle. Even if we aren't running Oracle on any of the other LPARs, we
have to pay for a 128 processor Oracle license. That is insane, and bad
for everybody, including IBM. We also have to pay for 128 processors of
regular TSM client licenses, even if we have only allocated half the
processors in the p595. These are unfair licensing practices, and just
make IBM look greedy.
To simplify the license counting problem, we are looking at IBM
License Metric Tool, but it is a big software product to install and
deploy on 2000 servers, too, just to count TSM licenses. ILMT 7.1 was
deeply flawed, and 7.2 just came out, so we are going to take a look at
that.
>From my perspective, a total-TB-under-management model would be very
easy on the customer, as long as it was reasonably fair. It would be
easy to run 'q occ' on all our TSM servers and pull together the result.
You could find out your whole TSM license footprint in 10 minutes. The
first time we had to it counting PVUs, it took us two months.
Best Regards,
John D. Schneider
The Computer Coaching Community, LLC
Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226
Cell: (314) 750-8721
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
From: Kelly Lipp <l...@storserver.com>
Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 3:05 pm
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
And the key to that would be to add the phrase "in some cases..."
No matter what IBM does there will be happy people and unhappy people.
While a core based model doesn't make sense to many of us, a per TB
model may turn out to make even less sense.
To argue on their side, they must find a model that is compatible with
the industry and that does not diminish their own cash flow. We need for
IBM to continue to enhance the product. They do that by keeping us as
customers and by attracting new customers. That balance is a lot harder
than one may think.
I was fairly vocal about this at a previous Oxford. While we're the
loudest of the constituent parties, we also matter the least from a cash
flow perspective: new customers actually spend more money (they've
already gotten ours). The dance is tricky and sometimes comes down to a
"they won't really leave (where would they go?) so let's worry about
them but not too much."
As I own my own business I can understand the complexity they face. It's
really hard, though, not to simply say it's their problem.
Kelly Lipp
Chief Technical Officer
www.storserver.com
719-266-8777 x7105
STORServer solves your data backup challenges.
Once and for all.
-----Original Message-----
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
Steven Langdale
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:38 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
He was a bit cagey about the actual cost, but said we should expect
approx
20% reduction in overall cost. Not pursued it as yet.
Steven Langdale
Global Information Services
EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation
( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175
( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782
ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817
+ Email: steven.langd...@cat.com
Kelly Lipp <l...@storserver.com>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU>
28/09/2009 19:00
Please respond to
"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU>
To
ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009
Really. How much does a TB of storage cost?
Kelly Lipp
Chief Technical Officer
www.storserver.com
719-266-8777 x7105
STORServer solves your data backup challenges.
Once and for all.
-----Original Message-----
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
Steven Langdale
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:02 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
My Tivoli S/W rep here in the UK is happy to sell by PVU or per TB.
It sounds like it's not quite made it over the water yet.
Steven Langdale
Global Information Services
EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation
( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175
( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782
ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817
+ Email: steven.langd...@cat.com
"John D. Schneider" <john.schnei...@computercoachingcommunity.com>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU>
28/09/2009 15:38
Please respond to
"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU>
To
ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009
Duane,
I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the
North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was:
"just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing
strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the
marketplace.
Ron Broucek
North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader"
So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering
both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM?
Best Regards,
John D. Schneider
The Computer Coaching Community, LLC
Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226
Cell: (314) 750-8721
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
From: "Ochs, Duane" <duane.o...@qg.com>
Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
We are actually looking into the cost difference.
>From what I understand, IBM is offering both. However, per terabyte
licensing eliminates sub-capacity licensing.
And it is your entire site. Not just where it works out best.
We are in the midst of passport renewals and found an increase due to
core type upgrades.
Previously we had older xeons using 50 PVUs per core. And the new
machines replacing the older ones are either same cores but at xeon 5540
cores which are now 70 PVUs or double the cores.
They brought up per TB licensing. Since then sales has sent me two
E-mails inquiring total number of hosts, total TSM sites and total
library capacity at each.
I was hesitant to say the least.
It's been about a week and I haven't heard back yet. When I hear more
I'll drop a line.
-----Original Message-----
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
Skylar Thompson
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:02 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Per terabyte licensing
We're in that boat too. We have a GPFS cluster we expect to grow into
the petabyte range, so unless IBM sets the per-byte cost *really* low
we'll get hammered with that licensing scheme.
Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU wrote:
> Or more costly. We have test VM servers with quad-core processors
running
> 15-VM guests. If I started counting by T-Bytes backed-up, it would cost
> a lot more than 4-CPU's!
>
>
>
> From:
> David Longo <david.lo...@health-first.org>
> To:
> ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
> Date:
> 09/25/2009 03:22 PM
> Subject:
> Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing
> Sent by:
> "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU>
>
>
>
> Haven't heard that.
> My first thought is that it would make licensing
> a LOT easier to figure out!
>
> David Longo
>
>>>> Thomas Denier <thomas.den...@jeffersonhospital.org> 9/25/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>
>>>>
> Within the last few months there was a series of messages on counting
> processor cores. A couple of the messages stated that TSM is moving to
> licensing based on terabytes of stored data rather than processor
> cores. Where can I find more information on this?
>
>
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--
-- Skylar Thompson (skyl...@u.washington.edu)
-- Systems Administrator, Genome Sciences Department
-- University of Washington, School of Medicine
